If you're new to this you need to understand the following truths.
1.) There is no simple automation system that will make you regular money, NONE.
2.) None of the free automation rulesets on this forum or elsewhere are profitable straight out of the box, they simply give you a framework to build your own ideas and help you learn how to use the automation in BA.
3.) Please realise that unless you are truly a genius, you are very unlikely to just stumble across a profitable idea of your own in your first few weeks.
4.) Also realise that everything you will come up with yourself during your apprenticeship has almost certainly been tried over and over again and has already been rejected by hundreds before you.
5.) NO-ONE successful can AFFORD to fully disclose how they make their money. However, there are many regular posters on here that generously give of their time and who try their best to help you lose as little as possible while you learn.
6.) Never get excited by one day of good results or even a week, remember Leicester City, good results are nearly always followed by a reversion to the mean( the bad results catch up). Once you've done something successfully over 1000 or more events, then can you start to allow a tiny chink of optimism into your life, but don't get cocky, or the markets will spank you good and proper.
General Advice for all newbies
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bennyboy351
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:01 pm
- Location: West Midlands, England.
So much 'doom and gloom' but sadly, all of it true! 
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spreadbetting
- Posts: 3140
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm
I'd completely disagree with that, from my experience the simpler the better when it comes to bots . I've always found the more filters you introduce the higher the probability you end up falling into the trap of backfitting or simply end up limiting your profitability.1.) There is no simple automation system that will make you regular money, NONE.
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cybernet69
+1spreadbetting wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:47 pmI'd completely disagree with that, from my experience the simpler the better when it comes to bots . I've always found the more filters you introduce the higher the probability you end up falling into the trap of backfitting or simply end up limiting your profitability.1.) There is no simple automation system that will make you regular money, NONE.
Mine couldn't be more simpler.
My advice to newbies is to PACK IT IN NOW! Pre-off trading on the horses is so difficult to master that it will almost definitely cost you money, lots of money. Yet if you are like me and have a stubborn streak, you will not want to admit defeat once you get started. You will spend your life in a foul mood and your self-esteem will take a hit, as you fail time and time again. When it comes to automation rules, I agree with Frogmella, there is no golden bullet. Any automation rule will only work for a short time under very special circumstances. Trying to find the exact circumstances where a rule will work will again cost you money. Be very careful about using WOM to trigger a rule. When you watch the markets you will see a large order appear and disappear again very quickly just before the market heads off in the opposite direction. This is a rouse used to trigger your rule and nick money from naive automation users.
I have just read over my reply and I know that it is very negative, but I still believe that it is a fair reflection of my experience. Maybe it is so negative because I am in the foul mood, that I mentioned earlier, due to being unable to overcome my gambling instincts AGAIN. Any newbies who come from a punting background, BEWARE, a trading mindset is very very different from a punting mindset.
If you are still determined to give this a go, be sure to use minimum stakes, and good luck to you.
I have just read over my reply and I know that it is very negative, but I still believe that it is a fair reflection of my experience. Maybe it is so negative because I am in the foul mood, that I mentioned earlier, due to being unable to overcome my gambling instincts AGAIN. Any newbies who come from a punting background, BEWARE, a trading mindset is very very different from a punting mindset.
If you are still determined to give this a go, be sure to use minimum stakes, and good luck to you.
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welshboy06
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:06 pm
I've been interested in trading on and off for a few years. Only the past few months I'vedecided to seriously give it a go. While I'm a losing trader (I've had the odd profitable day) I don't feel like im losing more than I can afford, and I also feel like I'm learning more from these small losses than I am some of the wins. While I haven't been able to figure out any successfull automation rules, I'm learning through manually trading, and am keeping notes on things I may be able to take advantage of using automation.
I agree trading isn't for everyone, but I equally wouldn't tell every newbie to pack it in without giving it a go. If it interestes them, as it does me, then why not give it a try? Know your limits, when to give up, when to take a break (I'm taking a week off until pay day, as I've lost my £100 allowance for the month) I'm taking this time to look at the markets and try and predict what I think will happen, and also write down ideas of possible 'edges' however small.
I understand peoples negativity, especially if you've not been successful, but as with everything in life. Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean other people cant. There may be a whole host of things that you can do, that I or some other people cant. You can't be great at everything.
I agree trading isn't for everyone, but I equally wouldn't tell every newbie to pack it in without giving it a go. If it interestes them, as it does me, then why not give it a try? Know your limits, when to give up, when to take a break (I'm taking a week off until pay day, as I've lost my £100 allowance for the month) I'm taking this time to look at the markets and try and predict what I think will happen, and also write down ideas of possible 'edges' however small.
I understand peoples negativity, especially if you've not been successful, but as with everything in life. Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean other people cant. There may be a whole host of things that you can do, that I or some other people cant. You can't be great at everything.
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cybernet69
You can still use WOM if you know what your doing. There's a time when it works and a time when it doesn't.
Most spoof money appears in the third columns, so ignore those amounts when your calculating your custom WOM.
Also, most spoof money will disappear in the last minute or two as they don't want to get caught out when the on-course bookies start entering the markets as they will get stung when prices start moving at pace.
Obviously you don't just open/close trades relying solely on what the WOM says.
It would seem that many here don't what there doing in general.
Most spoof money appears in the third columns, so ignore those amounts when your calculating your custom WOM.
Also, most spoof money will disappear in the last minute or two as they don't want to get caught out when the on-course bookies start entering the markets as they will get stung when prices start moving at pace.
Obviously you don't just open/close trades relying solely on what the WOM says.
It would seem that many here don't what there doing in general.
I think this all depends on your discipline and mind set. If you are able to take things seriously with small stakes then learning to trade (or proving to your self that's you cant do it) should not cost you very much money at all. If you start making money on a regular basis then gradually increase your stakes.
If you don't make anything then what you don't do is increase your stakes, instead try and see what you might be able to do to improve.
If at the end of the day you cant do it then don't be too hard on yourself, your in good company, around 95% of people who try trading fail in the long run, so its not something to beat yourself up about.
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ruthlessimon
- Posts: 2094
- Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:54 pm
This is how I'm spending my weekend, sorting out & reviewing old markets.
Not glamorous, but if I can learn 1 new thing (or make my process more efficient); it'll have been worth it. People need to realise decent trading requires incredible grit & a lot of good luck
Not glamorous, but if I can learn 1 new thing (or make my process more efficient); it'll have been worth it. People need to realise decent trading requires incredible grit & a lot of good luck
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iambic_pentameter
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 1:24 pm
To echo what RS said:
"People need to realise decent trading requires incredible grit & a lot of good luck"
As part of my "continuous professional development" I've spent an hour or so looking at a race tomorrow for a B2L opportunity - race replays, previous running notes, prices etc etc.
"People need to realise decent trading requires incredible grit & a lot of good luck"
As part of my "continuous professional development" I've spent an hour or so looking at a race tomorrow for a B2L opportunity - race replays, previous running notes, prices etc etc.
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cybernet69
Newbies
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Stop listening to all the negativity on this forum and others.
If you are interested in trading then...
1. Start with a small bank £50 is fine.
2. Use small stakes £2
3. Study a market and decide when is best to start looking for trades. I personally trade Greyhounds from 3 minutes to 1 minute before and Horse Racing from 5 minutes to 1 minute before.
4. Close out your trades well before the event goes in-play or is suspended.
5. Whatever you do, I strongly suggest you stay away from trying to back or lay when a fast moving event goes in-play (Horses). You are at the mercy of unknown factors and time delays, unless you are actually at the event.
6. If trades don't go how you planned, then take a break, clear your head and come back tomorrow.
There are a number of strategies to look at and employ on these two markets and others.
1. Look for price gaps of 2 ticks and no more. Fill either side with the same stake if the selections price has been operating in a fairly tight range for a set period of time.
2. Look for no price gaps but the current back and lay amounts on offer are similar, being evenly matched and the WOM is between 40% and 60%.
3. Look for selections that are trading at the bottom and top of their ranges and see if you can spot when/if they reverse. Usually the favourite but not always.
There are recurring patterns in each market, especially before an event starts. It takes time to be able to spot them but you will get there.
Keep notes of when you open trades and the reason why. Use this as a reference point as you go along. Don't buy any information or systems from anyone unless you trust them 100%.
And remember most if not all the experts on here started like yourself, some are just pissed off because of all the money they blew getting to where they are now.
Keep your bank and stakes small until you gain confidence in whatever you are doing. There is no fast way to riches but there is to the poor house.
Best of luck,
Mark
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Stop listening to all the negativity on this forum and others.
If you are interested in trading then...
1. Start with a small bank £50 is fine.
2. Use small stakes £2
3. Study a market and decide when is best to start looking for trades. I personally trade Greyhounds from 3 minutes to 1 minute before and Horse Racing from 5 minutes to 1 minute before.
4. Close out your trades well before the event goes in-play or is suspended.
5. Whatever you do, I strongly suggest you stay away from trying to back or lay when a fast moving event goes in-play (Horses). You are at the mercy of unknown factors and time delays, unless you are actually at the event.
6. If trades don't go how you planned, then take a break, clear your head and come back tomorrow.
There are a number of strategies to look at and employ on these two markets and others.
1. Look for price gaps of 2 ticks and no more. Fill either side with the same stake if the selections price has been operating in a fairly tight range for a set period of time.
2. Look for no price gaps but the current back and lay amounts on offer are similar, being evenly matched and the WOM is between 40% and 60%.
3. Look for selections that are trading at the bottom and top of their ranges and see if you can spot when/if they reverse. Usually the favourite but not always.
There are recurring patterns in each market, especially before an event starts. It takes time to be able to spot them but you will get there.
Keep notes of when you open trades and the reason why. Use this as a reference point as you go along. Don't buy any information or systems from anyone unless you trust them 100%.
And remember most if not all the experts on here started like yourself, some are just pissed off because of all the money they blew getting to where they are now.
Keep your bank and stakes small until you gain confidence in whatever you are doing. There is no fast way to riches but there is to the poor house.
Best of luck,
Mark
I suspected that , I have made a great start in my first few weeks on here,trading mostly tennis with a 77% strike rate (albeit with small stakes ). I am wary of using automation at this stage especially now it seems Betfair are restricting accounts using Practice mode . Thankyou for your words of caution .
I'd advice newbies to start with small stakes and concentrate on improving there strike rate first and then do nothing whether it's winning or losing money (close to random) if your strike rate is below 50% in the long run your doing something wrong and you have to put all your effort into changing this first before you go any futher.
I run a bot similer to this but it's got a strike rate of about 60% which will return a very small profit all i use this for is to get data which i use to improve my new ideas, due to this bot having no stop loss it does have pretty big losses but i use this data to work out the best place to put a stop loss on any new bots i build, you also have to look at the up side when your making money and look to improve this aswell, it's all about learning when to enter a market and keeping data so you can remove any mistakes you are making and push forward into a long term profit.
And try to enjoy trading to me it's just a game and that's the way everyone should treat it.
I run a bot similer to this but it's got a strike rate of about 60% which will return a very small profit all i use this for is to get data which i use to improve my new ideas, due to this bot having no stop loss it does have pretty big losses but i use this data to work out the best place to put a stop loss on any new bots i build, you also have to look at the up side when your making money and look to improve this aswell, it's all about learning when to enter a market and keeping data so you can remove any mistakes you are making and push forward into a long term profit.
And try to enjoy trading to me it's just a game and that's the way everyone should treat it.