General Advice for all newbies

We were all new to Bet Angel once. Ask any question you like here and fellow forum members promise not to laugh. Betfair trading made simple.
Dave C
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 1:12 am

There's a reason that I don't often read this forum and this thread sums it up completely. For anyone even thinking of learning to trade I would suggest staying away from here due to the negativity spewing forth from half the posters and 40% alluding that trading is a mythical skill akin to Sorcery or something so complex that you need a degree in Probability and Statistics.

I appreciate that Trading isn't easy but you sound like the people that Peter talks about in his videos- "No it can't be done, it's impossible, forget it". You all seem to want it to be this Rubik's Cube x Pi that mere mortals cannot solve and shouldn't even attempt. No disrespect to the guy, but if Caan Berry can make a living trading then a lot of people can.
Last edited by Dave C on Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dave C
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 1:12 am

Korattt wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:25 am
with regards to pre race trading on the horse racing win markets, if you really want this.. to succeed and make profit then you can, it can take a couple or more years to work out what works & what don't, and even then you need to work on your mistakes, you can do it, just takes a lot, a heck of a lot of blood, sweat, desk bashing & tears
Good man. That's more like it.
Dave C
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 1:12 am

The name was changed in a previous post and I totally understand why but as stated, it wasn't meant as any sleight. I've even said it to him and use it as an inspiration.
iambic_pentameter
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 1:24 pm

It's probably been mentioned in the thread already but discipline is so important.

Case in point for me, is that I've had a shocker today in terms of reading the markets, selections not trading as low in running as I'd thought - based on my research and previous runs. Everything I touched, turned to red.

It wasn't that long ago that I'd chase those losses but just over half an hour ago, I logged off Bet Angel and will come back tomorrow.

My thought process was:

1) Loses are part of the game
2) If I chase those losses, I'll likely lose a lot more and that will affect my trading bank - my objective is to protect that bank
3) If I was a professional trader relying on this for my income, would I chase the losses? Of course I wouldn't so do what the professional would do.

I am by no means the finished product but I hope that any newbies see this and understand that discipline is a huge part of trading.

Iambic
Korattt
Posts: 2405
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:46 pm

Naffman wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:03 pm
Not meaning to be rude but I thought you had no chance earlier this year when everything seemed to be going wrong so I'm really glad to hear this it proves hard work does pay off! :)
not that I'm no expert at trading looking back I really was trading like an idiot back then
Korattt
Posts: 2405
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:46 pm

Black Ice wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:05 pm
Korattt: To be really quizzy..what sort of stakes were you using for those results...
depends on the odds I reckon without looking back into my BF account approx 50 over those three days
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ruthlessimon
Posts: 2094
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:54 pm

Dave C wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:06 pm
alluding that trading is a mythical skill akin to Sorcery or something so complex that you need a degree in Probability and Statistics.
People can't accept it because they underestimate what it takes to be a top trader. It's the same with the best in any industry - specifically top sportsmen. Lets take an F1 driver. He has practised on a race course for so long, he doesn't need to look at the speedometer & think about what gear to be in. He can "feel" the speed & the gear he needs to take each corner.

This "feel" is pure intuition - but people mistake it for sorcery - it's not. Intuition is based on pure falsifiable edges. Like stabilisers being removed from a bike. You have simply outgrown them.

A trading example, you have outgrown the need to use the WOM indicator. You can just "feel it" in the market. The outsized stakes, the pulling of orders etc. & you will have a speed edge over everyone who is not at your level yet (those still chasing the indicators)
Korattt
Posts: 2405
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:46 pm

ruthlessimon wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:38 pm
Dave C wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:06 pm
alluding that trading is a mythical skill akin to Sorcery or something so complex that you need a degree in Probability and Statistics.
This "feel" is pure intuition - but people mistake it for sorcery - it's not. Intuition is based on pure falsifiable edges. Like stabilisers being removed from a bike. You have simply outgrown them

Funny you say that, was trading on the laptop last Friday night instead of my screens, hardly looked at a graph due to limited screen space & did rather well, it actually felt as if I instigated a couple of moves but that must've been a coincidence, maybe I got on just at the right time..
Bluesky
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:26 pm

Dave C wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:06 pm
There's a reason that I don't often read this forum and this thread sums it up completely. For anyone even thinking of learning to trade I would suggest staying away from here due to the negativity spewing forth from half the posters and 40% alluding that trading is a mythical skill akin to Sorcery or something so complex that you need a degree in Probability and Statistics.

I appreciate that Trading isn't easy but you sound like the people that Peter talks about in his videos- "No it can't be done, it's impossible, forget it". You all seem to want it to be this Rubik's Cube x Pi that mere mortals cannot solve and shouldn't even attempt. No disrespect to the guy, but if somebody else can make a living trading then a lot of people can.

Get your heads out of your arses.
Although there are a few exceptions I think most of the posters on these forums tell it like it is. It is possible to become a profitable trader, but most people will fail. For the ones that do succeed it will generally take at least a year and probably longer. A tiny amount of people will be successful from almost day one, these people are very rare and are in my opinion gifted. Just like top footballers are gifted, they would have been good at football from when they first started playing.

I think its only fair to let people know who are looking to come into trading (often to escape from a low paying and or stressful job) that although its possible to succeed, to become successful is very likely to be one of the most difficult things they have ever done. The rewards however can be enormous and if they never try then they will never know if they might become part of the 5 odd percent that succeed long term.
azzadeath
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:04 pm

ludite wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:15 am
I have been trading mostly tennis on here since starting in April , & have made a good start . But now the football season has come round I'm thinking of using one of the subscription sites such as Pre match trading .com to give me a good start to the season . Can anyone reccomend one thats good value please ?
I started football trading when i signed up to pre match trading about a year and half ago but blown a big bank with small stakes quicky then tried rta on the same site and did the same, i realized after i should have done a trading course or spent more time learning before as you just get eaten alive in the markets otherwise
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Black Ice
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:35 pm
Location: Newmarket Suffolk

Having done this lark for coming up for two years and not having cracked it yet..IMO it is about the type of brain that you are born with. Have been reading a lot recently about Bletchley Park (for any young Newbies who know nothing about it..they were the codebreakers who basically won us the last WW. If they hadn't broken the Enigma & Tunney codes and therefore we were able to find and beat the German U Boats..GB would have been starved into submission and we would all be in a very different place now. These were brilliant men..but they weren't just any old brilliant men...they were types for example who loved & were brilliant at: Crosswords...I hate them! They would probably have been brilliant at QI...i hate quizzes!! To a much lesser degree i think the folk who crack this pre-race specifically; have a special type of brain...You probably love graphs/figures/stats/good at maths..etc etc..(i hated & was no good at maths at School)..as you aren't actually dealing with horses at all are you..we are simply watching ladders/numbers/graphs aren't we? On the other hand if you choose a sport you understand..footie/tennis for example..you are dealing with human beings...and the majority of us get to be pretty good at reading body language/energy levels/an individuals or teams 'sense of direction'..we 'get' other humans behaviour. Maybe there is a clue there? Having said all that...having no special talent for anything...i have over a lifetime become reasonably competent at most things i tackled: race-riding/riding a racehorse/playing tennis/fencing..even running my own Company as a sole trader for 15 years. So i am still plugging away at pre-race..and have started on tennis...and hope to become reasonably competent at both. This post may cause a storm of protest...but there U go...just thought i would put down my 10p worth!! :) Oh & BTW: BIG tip of the hat to Dallas...would not be anywhere near where i am on trading without his advice on this forum!
Korattt
Posts: 2405
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:46 pm

I read Adam Heathcote's blog over & over until one particular post stood out, semi automated something on it a helped bundles
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Black Ice
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:35 pm
Location: Newmarket Suffolk

Very many thanks for the tip Korattt..it will not be wasted on me! :)
welshboy06
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:06 pm

Korattt wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:39 pm
ruthlessimon wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:38 pm
Dave C wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:06 pm
alluding that trading is a mythical skill akin to Sorcery or something so complex that you need a degree in Probability and Statistics.
This "feel" is pure intuition - but people mistake it for sorcery - it's not. Intuition is based on pure falsifiable edges. Like stabilisers being removed from a bike. You have simply outgrown them

Funny you say that, was trading on the laptop last Friday night instead of my screens, hardly looked at a graph due to limited screen space & did rather well, it actually felt as if I instigated a couple of moves but that must've been a coincidence, maybe I got on just at the right time..
I'm still a novice and have yet to hit a run of steady profits, but I find that just using the ladders, and the data on offer from the ladders, I do better. Trying to use graphs etc... I find actually makes me a worse trader. Not sure if its because there's so much data on offer, or if it's something else :S
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