Betfair Accounts being restricted, closed and suspended

[jimibt]

To me it seems a bit fishy that they begin clamping down around the time that they start offering 50ms historical data.

Instead of using practice mode for testing different methods, it seems that they want us to pay for their data and use that instead.

+1 - on that note, gorra head out, but nice to see reflective alternatives being offered

[cybernet69]

This will probably end up spelling the end of Bet Angel's practice mode

Could have a significant impact on new and continued subscriptions to BA and other software too. People are not going to want to risk having their accounts restricted by falling foul of BF's new undisclosed rules for using the API etc.

[spreadbetting]

1. Accounts which only ever place bets in test mode.
2. Accounts which mainly place bets in test mode and the occasional bets in live mode.
3. Accounts which use strategies whereby they place large numbers of bets outside a selections initial trading range in the hope of catching spikes or price jumps. The ratio between bets placed and bets matched is too high.
4. Accounts which don't generate a certain percentage profit over a monitored period of time.
5. Accounts firing large number of in-running bets (horse racing) in the hope of getting a small percentage matched to return a profit long term.
6. Accounts which BF believe are data mining.

Personally I'm quite happy to see Betfair clamping down on all of those scenarios.

With all due respect, that's rather a harsh statement given point 4 above. How are new starters supposed to build up knowledge and strategies or are you and BF expecting everyone to be an expert from the word go ?

No one's expecting people to be experts but when they're continually placing bets that aren't being matched you can't blame Betfair for blocking those accounts. As for 4. I'd be surprised if accounts get closed for generating small amounts of comission for Betfair as they already have things in place for dormant accounts. The other scenarios are either trap bets or data mining, there's the delayed API if people want to test out strategies, if those test strategies go on forever without bets being placed it's no surprise Betfair will see those as data mining.

[jimibt]

This will probably end up spelling the end of Bet Angel's practice mode

Could have a significant impact on new and continued subscriptions to BA and other software too. People are not going to want to risk having their accounts restricted by falling foul of BF's new undisclosed rules for using the API etc.

don't underestimate how much data you consume even if just screen recording every market for further analysis. on my *other software* account, i used this technique to record market info (in video form) and am certain that it all adds up when the BDP(olice) sum your total thro-put.

[cybernet69]

This will probably end up spelling the end of Bet Angel's practice mode

Could have a significant impact on new and continued subscriptions to BA and other software too. People are not going to want to risk having their accounts restricted by falling foul of BF's new undisclosed rules for using the API etc.

don't underestimate how much data you consume even if just screen recording every market for further analysis. on my *other software* account, i used this technique to record market info (in video form) and am certain that it all adds up when the BDP(olice) sum your total thro-put.

Yep, agreed.

But isn't this going to spell the return back to the days of screen scrapping software therefore bypassing the API for some.

If I log on to my restricted account via the web then there are no restrictions apart from market depth.

[jimibt]

Could have a significant impact on new and continued subscriptions to BA and other software too. People are not going to want to risk having their accounts restricted by falling foul of BF's new undisclosed rules for using the API etc.

don't underestimate how much data you consume even if just screen recording every market for further analysis. on my *other software* account, i used this technique to record market info (in video form) and am certain that it all adds up when the BDP(olice) sum your total thro-put.

Yep, agreed.

But isn't this going to spell the return back to the days of screen scrapping software therefore bypassing the API for some.

If I log on to my restricted account via the web then there are no restrictions apart from market depth.

i think you'll also find that your account (whether on web or via BA) is on a 10 second delay... that makes it impossible to use either pre-race or IP. I'm still awaiting a conclusion from BDP and am hoping that they fully understand that I'm just trying to undertake a *poor-mans* analysis of markets in a variety of ways. I can only conclude tho that when my account is restored that the best way fwd is to do all analysis via delayed market tools.

[cybernet69]

don't underestimate how much data you consume even if just screen recording every market for further analysis. on my *other software* account, i used this technique to record market info (in video form) and am certain that it all adds up when the BDP(olice) sum your total thro-put.

Yep, agreed.

But isn't this going to spell the return back to the days of screen scrapping software therefore bypassing the API for some.

If I log on to my restricted account via the web then there are no restrictions apart from market depth.

i think you'll also find that your account (whether on web or via BA) is on a 10 second delay... that makes it impossible to use either pre-race or IP. I'm still awaiting a conclusion from BDP and am hoping that they fully understand that I'm just trying to undertake a *poor-mans* analysis of markets in a variety of ways. I can only conclude tho that when my account is restored that the best way fwd is to do all analysis via delayed market tools.

In the meantime you have PM.

[deggsy10]

I bought bet angel last week and have not used practice mode at all because of seeing another similar thread somewhere else on here. So I have been using real money bets from the off albeit predominantly with small £2 stakes. I hope this will protect me from this account restriction nonsense. Charging people £299 to unrestrict accounts is bordering on blackmail. I just don't know how they can get away with it. Is it worth contacting the gambling commission?

[cybernet69]

I bought bet angel last week and have not used practice mode at all because of seeing another similar thread somewhere else on here. So I have been using real money bets from the off albeit predominantly with small £2 stakes. I hope this will protect me from this account restriction nonsense. Charging people £299 to unrestrict accounts is bordering on blackmail. I just don't know how they can get away with it. Is it worth contacting the gambling commission?

The gambling commission wont get involved.

Its in BF T&C's.

[ShaunWhite]

1. Accounts which only ever place bets in test mode.
2. Accounts which mainly place bets in test mode and the occasional bets in live mode.
3. Accounts which use strategies whereby they place large numbers of bets outside a selections initial trading range in the hope of catching spikes or price jumps. The ratio between bets placed and bets matched is too high.
4. Accounts which don't generate a certain percentage profit over a monitored period of time.
5. Accounts firing large number of in-running bets (horse racing) in the hope of getting a small percentage matched to return a profit long term.
6. Accounts which BF believe are data mining.

Personally I'm quite happy to see Betfair clamping down on all of those scenarios.

With all due respect, that's rather a harsh statement given point 4 above. How are new starters supposed to build up knowledge and strategies or are you and BF expecting everyone to be an expert from the word go ?

No one's expecting people to be experts but when they're continually placing bets that aren't being matched you can't blame Betfair for blocking those accounts. As for 4. I'd be surprised if accounts get closed for generating small amounts of comission for Betfair as they already have things in place for dormant accounts. The other scenarios are either trap bets or data mining, there's the delayed API if people want to test out strategies, if those test strategies go on forever without bets being placed it's no surprise Betfair will see those as data mining.

+1

Lots of people seem to expect BF to be a service for traders. Last time I looked they're marketing targets punters. They're not going to get much new business if the markets are flashing ridiculous unattainable odds all over the place, and 'normal' traders aren't going to see much profit if it becomes dominated by a handful of HFT outfits.

These restrictions might hinder a few bots or beginners but without them it would soon be ruined for their core customer base, incl 95% of BA bot users, and everyone would be free to stealing their data.

To me it seems a bit fishy that they begin clamping down around the time that they start offering 50ms historical data.

It's not fishy, it's business. Why wouldn't they do that?
Same with the £299 fee, less than £1 a day? I'm suprised it doesn't have a zero on it given the value of the information it gives you.

This will probably end up spelling the end of Bet Angel's practice mode

Could have a significant impact on new and continued subscriptions to BA and other software too. People are not going to want to risk having their accounts restricted by falling foul of BF's new undisclosed rules for using the API etc.

BA's practice mode is for practicing using the software features isn't it? I don't think it's intended or marketed as a full-on strategy testing system. There's other software around for doing that.

..bottom line is BF is a business, and no business puts niche customers' wants above the needs of the core business, or profit.

[Euler]

I bought bet angel last week and have not used practice mode at all because of seeing another similar thread somewhere else on here. So I have been using real money bets from the off albeit predominantly with small £2 stakes. I hope this will protect me from this account restriction nonsense. Charging people £299 to unrestrict accounts is bordering on blackmail. I just don't know how they can get away with it. Is it worth contacting the gambling commission?

As long as you are not crazy and don't just run it in practice mode for six months on thousands of markets without placing a bet then you should be fine. Betfair just doesn't want you hammering their servers without any revenue.

[Euler]

Using real money is really the only way to test a system. You get very different results from data mining. Data mining can point you in a direction, but only using real money will you learn if it actually works.

[LeTiss]

Using real money is really the only way to test a system. You get very different results from data mining. Data mining can point you in a direction, but only using real money will you learn if it actually works.

Yeah, totally agree

I've said this before about practice mode, but as kids we're fearless. When learning to cycle, you have to take the stabilisers off at some stage. Sure, you're gonna fall off, you're gonna get some bruises, but it's the only way to learn how to balance and how to ride a bike

[Bluesky]

I've said this before about practice mode, but as kids we're fearless. When learning to cycle, you have to take the stabilisers off at some stage. Sure, you're gonna fall off, you're gonna get some bruises, but it's the only way to learn how to balance and how to ride a bike

Excellent analogy.

[welshboy06]

One glaring difference I've noticed between live and practice mode is... when asking for a price that has no available money to match. It sits there until someone comes in with some money to match it. However in live, the mere fact that I have my money sitting there, often makes someone jump up and take it.

This is more prominent when trying to take advantage of the gaps in prices