BITCOIN as an alternative to regular currency

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marksmeets302
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Lost 30% of its value in a matter of days. Highly speculative, worse than a seller on a Wednesday evening at Kempton.
about 3 years ago I deployed a bot that used a rebalancing technique for trading bitcoin. It thrived on volatility, and made quite a bit of money. What's holding me back this time is that you have to park your money and bitcoins at an exchange - the weakest point in the bitcoin scheme. Either they get hacked or the exchanges ceo decides to pay for hookers with your bitcoins (I'm still waiting to get some of my money back from the mtgox fiasco). On top of that, if you ever deposit or withdraw money from a bitcoin exchange, you'll be flagged by the tax administration. No problem if you haven't done anything wrong but it means you'll be audited more often. Worse, at least here in the Netherlands, if they think you are involved in money laundering *you* have to prove that isn't the case.

Hmm. I think I've just convinced myself to stick with financial and betting markets.
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Euler
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Good point. It's probably only useful for people who never intend to leave the system.
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Dallas
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A unit of Bitcoin exceeds value of an ounce of gold
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39149475
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Euler
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Bitcoin and particularly blockchain tech feels like a place I should be but it also feels like the wild west.
spreadbetting
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Euler wrote:
Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:28 am
Bitcoin and particularly blockchain tech feels like a place I should be but it also feels like the wild west.
I thought the same ,being a bit of a tech geek thought it was about time I knew how it all works. I only started looking a couple of weeks ago and the price has already risen around 20% all speculated on whether the authorities allow an ETF to go ahead. They've been delaying the decision for a long time and now has to be made by 11 march so that'll be a big make or break for bitcoins.

It's a lot harder to get your hands on reasonable amounts than you'd think too. Obviously that's a big bonus for anyone who can as you pretty much set your own sale price. Downside is most banks see it as a currency for criminals and most likely shut your account if your volume is high. Worth looking into though as the hype and reality are chalk and cheese.
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Orixian
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Euler wrote:
Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:28 am
Bitcoin and particularly blockchain tech feels like a place I should be but it also feels like the wild west.
A lot of people made money in the wild west!

I had the pleasure of meeting you recently at the master class. I asked you about Augur project as an alternative to trading exchanges and you said you had actually met the people developing it! but you werent aware of teh crypto currency It was built upon called Ethereum. Just over a year ago i went looking for the next cryptocurrency that could be big as i was determined not to miss out as I came close to buying bitcoin. I came accross ethereum. Below is an e-mail i sent to a friend at the time to convince him it would be worth investing.

Ok mate here's some stuff you should read. This first video is the best I have seen about blockchain technology. It explains the capabilities of the technology and uses bitcoin as an example. You should instantly see why the technology is big in terms of how it saves on bureaucracy through cheap cost affective automation. It doesn't go into the techno bable about exactly how the block chain functions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIVAluSL9SU

The problem with bitcoin as far as I can tell is that whilst the the block chain technology allows for a lot of the things described in that video, what Ive read suggests the code for bitcoin does not easily allow for such things and bitcoin would probably need adapting to realise blockchains full potential. The video does state that bitcoin is the tip of the iceberg and its right. Ether on the other had appears to be the first mover in realising the potential of the blockchain technology. Now a good video on putting ether in layman's terms is hard to come by, Its very new, but here is the official one
https://www.youtube.com/user/ethereumproject

That doesnt explain it simply enough though. I would recommend you watch the following on a music company called Ujo from the recent Ether devcon. The guy is not a techy and the way in which his company is looking to use ether is something everyone can understand and instantly see the benefit of. Its also something that only a blockchain can achieve and something that a lot of musicians would want to take up as the middle man is cut out. From this video you should be able to imagine this technology deployed in several different industries and then you will get why this is a big thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFSknHNquOQ

Now you will notice one of the the sponsors in the background is Microfsoft. Big players are taking the technology and ethereum seriously. that make me want to buy. Below is a video from UBS who were also at the Devcon and explain the use of the blockchain for smart bonds. Sadly unless you know what your looking for you wont realise why this cant take place on other systems or what the benefits are (the ujo video is better for that). But UBS being interested is also very reassuring. The guy in this presentation does allude to the ability to cut out paying agents and also talks about an escrow capability being built into the smart bond (block chain in combination with ether is allowing for this as far as I can tell). Its an automated feature than takes place with the same click of the button that allows for the bond purchase.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kKsouPSr1k

Here is a link to the official ether web page
https://www.ethereum.org/
Most of its meaningless to you and me but scroll right down to the bottom and you will see a list of companies currently developing DAPPS (the is Decentralised applications) for the ethereum blockchain. Two of my favourites are gnosis and argur which are basically betfair for blockchain. When you gamble on sports or anything a booky takes a percentage of all money in the market which is called the overround. that is basically how they win whether you win or loose. Google it if you want to understand how it works but basically its a fee you pay to them for them being a market maker, much like the spread in stocks and shares trading but its less transparent. When betfair launched its "Marketplace" in the early 00's it pissed of the bookies because it allowed you to match bets directly against someone else and cut out the market maker thus reducing the overround (basically the spread is reduced as punters charge one another a lot less) but betfair would take a cut of the winnings in the form of a percentage. In the same way that betfair disrupted the traditional booky model I can see these DAPPs disrupting the traditional bookies even futher and betfair as betfair wont be able to tax the winnings and the overround on the DAPPS should remain low. Betfair do massively tax winnings of high earners too.

My absolute favourite is Slockit though. Go to their page and watch their video. Its not so much the business idea im interested in I could take or leave that its the way in which they are using the blockchain to effectively issue shares in a company without any need for the companies traditionally involved in an IPO and without any need for a stock exchange of any sort. Very interesting stuff. im going to buy some of these "shares" just for the hell of it when they are released.

Buying Crypto Currencies;
Get a Fidor smart account
https://www.fidorbank.uk/?amc=search.fi ... 7254.36913

and a Kraken account
https://www.kraken.com/help/faq

Youll need a scanned passport/driving licence and a bank statement within the last 3 months for both. get Tier 3 verified on the Kraken account for full functionality. You transfer money to Fidor as you would transfer money online in any other way but you must inclued an id in the description to get it done quick. You then transfer money via SEPA or SWIFT (I cant rember which it is but theres only one option) from FIDOR too Kraken. Fidor charge £2.50 for this and Kraken I think charge 0.19% for the transaction. Once the money is at the Kraken exchange you selected the currecny pair you want to trade which will be GPB/ETH for ether coin and make the transaction. Kraken will again charge a 0.16% fee. It took me a while to figure out this cheap way of getting the cryptocurrencies.

The simple gamble is that if all this takes off and ether is the platform for all this the currecny should massively appreciate over the next few years. ITS IS A GAMBLE DO NOT INVEST MONEY YOU CANT AFFORD TO LOOSE. Simple psychology, this is a purchase like buying a holiday or new shoes. You do not expect to get this money back. If you do then great but if you dont then fine, you wouldn't expect to trade your shoes in four years later because they didn't work out.

I haven't had time to go over the bitcoin lending platform but its called bitjam if you want to look at it its a lot more self explanatory than this. I really would appreciate any questions they always help me focus and refine my understanding of it all. Somewhere I have a list of all the ethereum videos from devcon 1 and i think devocn zero but I cant find it atm
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Orixian
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I should say I bought the coin at roughly 5$ and sold it a $12. Sadly it is now worth $35 and went to $50 briefly. If it falls to $25 I will likely pick it up again

An organisation called the DAO was formed to effectively serve as an investment fund to develop projects/apps that would run on the ethereum system. The DAO issued its own cryptocurrency that could be exchanged on for bitcoin or ether coin. People owning DAO tokens basically owned shares in the DAO and would be able to vote on proposals as to how to invest its wealth. However the DAO code (which was built in ethereum) was flawed. Despite the code being proof read and audited it had a serious flaw. Someone exploited the code and managed to siphon off a lot of ethereum into an account.

To fix the problem the ethereum project broke a cardinal rule of block chain; no centralised authority. This oversimplifies things a bit but; the way transactions are supposed to take place is that many computers all over the world watch the same transaction take place and log it on a ledger. If one computer lies all the other basically disagree with it so the ledger cant be altered. This way you have a system where no central authority is needed to police the transactions and costs are reduced (amongst many other benefits). Ether however got a majority of people monitoring the ledger to agree the transaction that siphoned off the ether from the DAO never took place. The ledger is altered by majority consensus. No one authority is supposed to be able to control the ledger so many considered this to be a serious flaw in ether coin and its premise and the price stagnated. The ethereum code was sound it was just people programing the DAO code that had messed up, so people so no need for ethereum to behave like this.I also considered this to be the case and didn't buy back in.

Scroll forward to may 2017 and it would appear the banks who scouted around ether from the get go are still bullish on it. Announcement of a fund created to invest in the platform has sent the price shooting up. I suspect that much like bitcoin it will see several phases of hype pump and dump but with real value backing it. So i will be buying in again given a chance.
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Orixian
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Euler wrote:
Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:21 am
Good point. It's probably only useful for people who never intend to leave the system.
I have traded cryptocurrency and withdrawn the money in pounds.Pound markets aren't massively liquid. If you can get the money to the crypto exchange in dollars or euros youll get a better price. One of the biggest exchanges doesn't take any fiat currency; poloniex only accepts cryptocurrencies.
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Euler
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Thanks for taking the time to post up that info,
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Orixian
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Euler wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:20 pm
Thanks for taking the time to post up that info,
No probs, I love talking about transformational tech. Usually I cant get access to anything like this as a small time investor. VC funds always hoover up the tech companies (id have bought uber and air bnb already if it was possible for little investors to get access to funding rounds). Cryptocurrencies allow little guys a shot at big gains and whilst most of them are junk a fair few will have some utility In the long run I think.
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marksmeets302
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bitcoin lost 20% value this weekend. There's a debate whether the current bitcoin should be replaced by a new bitcoin with a larger block size. This should speed up transaction validation. Not everyone agrees and therefore it is proposed to split up the bitcoin in new and old fashion coins. Seems fair, but once one of the types becomes the dominant one everybody will want to sell the other type. This would leave people that weren't quick enough to react with a bunch of worthless coins. Never a dull moment in bitcoinland.
spreadbetting
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The wise money should be investing in the bitcoin technology not the currencies themselves. Hard to see any of the current currencies ever really taking off in the real world but I doubt it'll be long before banks start using their own versions of blockchains to transfer monies. Bitcoin are the current standard by which all the other currencies are tryng to topple and even though many have better foundings it's always going to be a struggle for them to compete against Bitcoin's first mover advantage, much the same as Betfair's FMA have them as the main player.
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Euler
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Consider the tulip. This is Semper Augustus, the flower behind 17th century Tulip mania. Ordinary tulips are solid in color and were sold by the pound, but the multicolored ones commanded ridiculous prices because they were rare. At peak demand, a Semper Augustus bulb went for 6,000 guilders, or two years’ salary for a wealthy merchant.

https://elaineou.com/2017/06/12/tulips-and-token-mania/
Jukebox
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Euler wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:51 pm
Consider the tulip. This is Semper Augustus, the flower behind 17th century Tulip mania. Ordinary tulips are solid in color and were sold by the pound, but the multicolored ones commanded ridiculous prices because they were rare. At peak demand, a Semper Augustus bulb went for 6,000 guilders, or two years’ salary for a wealthy merchant.

https://elaineou.com/2017/06/12/tulips-and-token-mania/
LOL
Tulip Fever runs today at York 13:50
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marksmeets302
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Now THAT's a fat finger:
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/22/ethereum ... trade.html

ethereum gets sold from $319 all the way down to 10 cents
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