£25 a day - A beginner's journey

[007]

First ever post grow arms and legs and got locked, haha.. hahaha..

POST2:
Only 3 or 4 answered my first and only post; is making £25 a day a lot to ask for a new guy?

On a scale of 1-10 (1 easiest/10 hardest), with 3 hours a day for a newcomer using the BA software, how easy/hard is it? The noo I'm laying the gee geez trying to build a wee bank. Looking to up the stakes in the future (buying BA's full version, gaining knowledge and branching out from just laying) but have no clue if I'm gonna lose my wee bank before I get going.

Cheers to jonnynoname and others who took the time to try and give an answer re my first post

[freddy]

Impossible to answer really

it's very unlikely you will make anything to begin with, you have to take time to learn, serve your apprenticeship if you like.

allot of people never make money,
but some make a fortune, althoe it's not to be underestimated how hard that is, a get rich quick scheme it is not.

25-00 a day is very realistic target althoe there is no point in having a target really as some days you will make more and some less.

it depends what size bank you have, if you have a 50-00 bank it's very very unlikely you will make 25-00 per day.

but if you have 1000 then an average pre race trader would.

P.s i would forget about the laying compleatly

[Alpha322]

P.s i would forget about the laying compleatly

top advice, same as betting for a horse to win.
It will take you some time to make that sort of money with the correct bank, You will lose a few banks as your dicipline takes shape, forget trying to get rich quick it dont work in trading, its about overall result of 30 days at least

Good luck

[rogerlisa]

Hello. Please forget about laying horses unless you can trade out at a profit before the race starts. It really wont work. When I started some 6 months or so ago I thought that was the way to go also and I earnt £??? a day some days. The problem was that in the end it comes to bite you and I had some big losses thanks to cows that shouldnt really have been in the field of runners that suddenly decided they wanted to be at the front in the last furlong and then stayed there. It will get you in the end. I started with a healthy bank of £6k and then was always playing catch up until I lost the lot. Granted some of it went on learning to trade also, but I wish I had learnt first rather than looking for the quick buck. Advice? Start with small stakes on scalping for one tick. You will then see how markets can move, but when you are trading one horse keep an eye on the others and you will note how trades on other horses affects yours. Also dont assume that what goes up must come down - if your trade is going t~ts up just get out of it and take the loss before it goes in play.

[Frogmella]

Save yourself some time. This is what I have learned in the last six weeks.

Simple random laying of outsiders doesn't work, you eventually run into a high priced dobbin that wins and you give back any past winnings plus some on top.

Laying the favourite doesn't work, its a maths thing, there's plenty on the net about that particular strategy.

Dutching half the field up to say 25 odds doesn't work either because a when high priced outsider, that you haven't backed, comes in (often in 2 races a day) you lose much, much more than you can win. You can limit this by avoiding certain races but still the strategy is a loser.

Dutching the whole field by backing at the Lay price doesn't work because you rarely get the whole book filled at the expected price. If you do it too late the market is too volatile, if you go early there is no activity and there's no-one to match all your bets.Vice Versa for Bookmaking by laying the field at the back price for the same reason.

Laying an outsider before the off and using the in-play trader to Back out in play doesn't work because once again every now and then the blighter runs its heart out and wins, obliterating your past successes. So you place a stop to protect yourself only for it to get taken just before the horse falls on its backside so then you still lose when you should have won on top of your normal losses.

Automated scalping doesn't work, the video on BetAngel TV makes it look a breeze but it doesn't happen like that in the real world. You always lose more than you win.

Using WOM doesn't work despite what some betting books say, maybe it did when Betfair was new, but it certainly doesn't now.(See my other recent thread)

No-one will actually tell you what DOES work, mainly because practically no-one on this forum, that doesn't work for Bet Angel, actually makes any serious money.(OK, there must be a few, but very few).

Just because someone does a lot of posts doesn't mean they are an expert, except perhaps in making forum posts.

I will tell you that I am making some profit trading odds using the charts but even then its only very tiny amounts although I am only using small stakes.

I believe I read somewhere that Betfair say that 98% of their accounts run at a loss.

So in conclusion, making £25 a day will be hard, very hard indeed. If it were easy the market couldn't exist.

[freddy]

Frogmella Betangel is a tool that is all,
you wouldn't gos to a DIY store and buy a few tools and then expect to build a house the next day would you ???

six weeks is nothing it takes alot of hard work to make this game pay.

i could have told you most of the above was a waste of time, but most people ignore advice and find out for themselves, but thats how you learn trial and error.

[Alpha322]

So in conclusion, making £25 a day will be hard, very hard indeed. If it were easy the market couldn't exist.

To a newbie agreed, to the two percent or so who have done their apprenteship, very easy in fact per race

[Frogmella]

Frogmella Betangel is a tool that is all,
you wouldn't gos to a DIY store and buy a few tools and then expect to build a house the next day would you ???

six weeks is nothing it takes alot of hard work to make this game pay.

i could have told you most of the above was a waste of time, but most people ignore advice and find out for themselves, but thats how you learn trial and error.

Not a great analogy because the DIY store would only want a one off payment for the tools and they wouldn't put 135 videos on YouTube showing how my shovel could build a skyscraper all on its own if I just hold it by the handle.

I'm a grown up about it. I'm am not blaming anybody, least of all the software, I think the software is very good indeed. I understand why people don't want to give away their hard earned strategies, I wouldn't either.

But that is a world away from helping newbies avoid wasting time and money chasing dead-ends.

I think its stupid that all newbies are expected to waste weeks of time and money repeating the same mistakes that have already been made over and over. How would civilisation have progressed with that attitude. "Yeah, I've got this stuff called penicillin its great for clearing up infections. Shame you wounded soldiers don't know how to make it but here's an old loaf of bread, have a look at it for a while and see if you can come up with anything."

I suppose the best idea is to buy the full course from Peter, which I may well do.

[freddy]

Ok Maybe i should have said hired some tools from a tool hire center then , there are plenty of youtube videos on how to do D.I.Y too, but it takes a long time to be a expert that's the point.

the trouble is allot of newcomers seem to want a click and win strategy (not saying you do).

But Trading does not work like that, it's hard work.

i make a living mainly from
scalping / swing trading on the horse racing market pre race. althoe i do take a more long term view of the market these days than what i used to.

Most people that know this think i have some sort of secret im not telling them, but i do not, it's all in the videos you've already watched.

The only thing that's missing is experience, which you don't get from books or videos.

I started off 6-7 years ago from where you are now and i learn't the hard way myself, just make sure the lessons arn't to expensive.

If you would have posted on here you were laying outsiders / favorite blindly,
i would have advised you not to do it,
if you don't have not edge you will lose.

alot of the things you have written off in you earlier post however do work in certain circumstances with the right filters, you carn't expect to win every time winning more than you lose is all that important.

[to75ne]

Frogmella there really is not much more to it than the price goes up, the price goes down or it stays where it is, until something makes it move.

the vids you refer to shows the capabilities (and limits) of the software,nothing more.

to succeed you need to get your head right and aim for small wins and take small losses to start with. you really have to react quickly, 1 tick gain close out,1 tick loss close out(scratching) not sure whats gonna happen, dont wait, close for no loss or 1 or 2 tick loss (scratching). you have to be able to read/sense/feel the markets. this will come over many many markets and hence a whole lotta of time. there are no short cuts.

this trading thing is a head game, if you cant take loses then you may as well give up.

if you cant/too impatient to take the time to learn to read the markets give it up.

dont set any targets or expectations, just learn to read the markets at the moment you cant read them, the numbers move but you dont quite know why.

if you gonna try trading pre off horse racing, then dont trade inplay. hedge green or red before the official off and move to next market (inplay trading is a totally different form of trading, pre off horse race trading does not mix at all well with inplay horse race trading and inplay trading will slaughter you sooner rather than later).

dont dutch, dont make a book, dont straight back, dont straight lay. dont do anything other then learning to read and trade the pre off markets. if your gonna trade then trade.

nearly forgot, you would probably do better if you read some of the posts on this forum, as some explain things better than demo vids of ba features.

a good one to start off with is a post by james 1st. think its called "newbies trading in the dark". also posts by jollygreen, mugsgame, peterlee, (obviously euler) to name but a few.

you will find explanations of volatility, w.o.m. ranging, swinging, break outs, etc, etc, etc , etc ,etc, etc, and other good points.

do yourself a favor and take the time (quite a long time) and search the forum.

[007]

A few have said that laying isn't great. But I'm doing well, so just wondering why? If I were betting with £100 I would be well up.

As mentioned, now thinking about buying the software and branching out - only have about 3 hours a day to do it in though, but don't have a sense of how realistic it is to earn £25 a day (don't have a big bank).

Am I in for a surprise in the future laying?

Also, don't want to lose my small bank even before I get going so am trying to figure out how to minimize that. I'm not looking to cut corners, would just like to start with something relatively safe.

[Alpha322]

Ok Maybe i should have said hired some tools from a tool hire center then , there are plenty of youtube videos on how to do D.I.Y too, but it takes a long time to be a expert that's the point.

the trouble is allot of newcomers seem to want a click and win strategy (not saying you do).

But Trading does not work like that, it's hard work.

i make a living mainly from
scalping / swing trading on the horse racing market pre race. althoe i do take a more long term view of the market these days than what i used to.

Most people that know this think i have some sort of secret im not telling them, but i do not, it's all in the videos you've already watched.

The only thing that's missing is experience, which you don't get from books or videos.

I started off 6-7 years ago from where you are now and i learn't the hard way myself, just make sure the lessons arn't to expensive.

If you would have posted on here you were laying outsiders / favorite blindly,
i would have advised you not to do it,
if you don't have not edge you will lose.

alot of the things you have written off in you earlier post however do work in certain circumstances with the right filters, you carn't expect to win every time winning more than you lose is all that important.

Need i add any more its all there in a nutshell top post, i share the same experience.

[Alpha322]

if you gonna try trading pre off horse racing, then dont trade inplay. hedge green or red before the official off and move to next market (inplay trading is a totally different form of trading, pre off horse race trading does not mix at all well with inplay horse race trading and inplay trading will slaughter you sooner rather than later).
.

This is a true fact, the edge for inplay trading is standing at the finish line or spending over £6000 for a feed of SIS or Turf Tv into your house
Great post 75

[Alpha322]

A few have said that laying isn't great. But I'm doing well (a few weeks now - 25 bets/18 days, on favs), so just wondering why? If I were betting with £100 I would be £1500 to the good.

But i garentee you lay that £100 on a say 14.0 outsider and you will somewhere get caught for £1300 even if you try to trade out, it happened to me would never forget it, i profited £300 laying before it happned

I wish you luck if you wish not to take good advice of the earlier experiance posts on here

[007]

Re laying: so the question is, am I gonna get bitten in the future?

Am I in the honeymoon period just now?

Thinking about branching out from laying horses using the BA software. £25 a day would be great but would rather not be walking into this totally blind, hence the questions. Having a white stick would be a nice starting point..