I'm not a big-time trader and you don't have to lose much, or even lose on Betfair to offset the PC. Look at it this way. A winning arb that loses £300 on Betfair means you need to win back a straight £400 before reaching PC levels.spreadbetting wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:14 pmNever really understood how people are able to maintain the bookie accounts needed to churn the large amount of comms you need to avoid PC on a weekly basis and trade at the same time. But I guess if people like the Old Centaur employee etc are able to do it it must be possibe, maybe you could write a walkthrough for that too, Derek?
Premium Charge question
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Unfortunately I've never been good enough to choose which side of the arb wins with the bookie or even maintain the bookie accounts when you do get those winning arbs though ,Derek, that's the side of things I need the help with.
You don't need to choose which side of the arb wins, as long as their not all on one side it will reduce your premium charge. However, I'm in the same boat as you now. All the bookies that price up US racing have stopped taking my bets except for Coral and Ladbrokes. Ladbrokes seems to be hard-wired to the exchange - they knock their prices down as quickly as exchange punters do so you can't arb with them. I might have one more go with coral but their not the most generous.spreadbetting wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:01 pmUnfortunately I've never been good enough to choose which side of the arb wins with the bookie or even maintain the bookie accounts when you do get those winning arbs though ,Derek, that's the side of things I need the help with.
Here it is Geordie. Macros need to be enabled and it doesn't cater for the 40% charge though it could easily be modified to do so.
Instructions
Look at your Betfair Premium charge page and enter last weeks dates (Monday-Sunday) in cells F3 and H3, in dd/mm/yy format.
Enter your total markets in cell F5.
Enter your lifetime P/L in cell F7.
Enter your lifetime commission in cell F9. (Other charges is dormant because I've never had them, so the spreadsheet would need to be modified if you incur them.)
If you've paid premium charges enter your lifetime total in cell B11.
If you've never paid PC you have two options. Either
When you're done, click the 'Close Week' button and the 'this week' values will be transferred to your lifetime profile. Your lifetime markets and g/p won't change because it includes this weeks data, but this week's values will be reset to zero. You can then update this week's figures at the end of week, or even on a daily basis. Just press the close week button when you've updated this week's values to include your last market of the week. The PC week ends midnight Sunday/Monday GMT.
Premium charge allowance (cell B17)
If you're paying PC this will usually be zero or negative, indicating how much PC is due for the current week.
If you previously paid PC but no longer pay it due to losing or less profitable weeks, your lifetime charges will exceed 20% for your lifetime gross profit, so you effectively have a premium charge allowance again. This cell should indicate how much it is.
Hope it's helpful.
Instructions
Look at your Betfair Premium charge page and enter last weeks dates (Monday-Sunday) in cells F3 and H3, in dd/mm/yy format.
Enter your total markets in cell F5.
Enter your lifetime P/L in cell F7.
Enter your lifetime commission in cell F9. (Other charges is dormant because I've never had them, so the spreadsheet would need to be modified if you incur them.)
If you've paid premium charges enter your lifetime total in cell B11.
If you've never paid PC you have two options. Either
- Enter 1000 in cell B11 (as though you've paid £1000 PC). Your premium charge allowance (cell B17) should indicate your remaining allowance, or
- Subtract your remaining allowance from 1000 and enter that in B11. (eg. an allowance of 300 would result in 700 being entered). The spreadsheet will apply PC but you don't actually pay it until cell B11 reaches £1000
When you're done, click the 'Close Week' button and the 'this week' values will be transferred to your lifetime profile. Your lifetime markets and g/p won't change because it includes this weeks data, but this week's values will be reset to zero. You can then update this week's figures at the end of week, or even on a daily basis. Just press the close week button when you've updated this week's values to include your last market of the week. The PC week ends midnight Sunday/Monday GMT.
Premium charge allowance (cell B17)
If you're paying PC this will usually be zero or negative, indicating how much PC is due for the current week.
If you previously paid PC but no longer pay it due to losing or less profitable weeks, your lifetime charges will exceed 20% for your lifetime gross profit, so you effectively have a premium charge allowance again. This cell should indicate how much it is.
Hope it's helpful.
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Last edited by Derek27 on Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hi guys, sorry to bump an old thread. I've only bet on 110 markets so I'm still a ways off from being eligible for PC but my current commission % is only 8% so I'm a bit worried looking ahead.
I've been trying to get to grips with how this all works and ways to avoid ever being eligible to pay it as it seems once you're eligible it's much harder to avoid the charges.
Is the only way to generate over 20% commission (without PC) by losing more? Or is it possible to generate over 20% whilst also maintaining a high win rate?
Thanks in advance
I've been trying to get to grips with how this all works and ways to avoid ever being eligible to pay it as it seems once you're eligible it's much harder to avoid the charges.
Is the only way to generate over 20% commission (without PC) by losing more? Or is it possible to generate over 20% whilst also maintaining a high win rate?
Thanks in advance
Thanks for your reply. I have read about some methods to try and break even such as backing 0-0 correct score and then laying under 0.5 goals however the liquidity in this markets appears to be very low and I'm yet to see a scenario where I'd be able to do this without laying at higher odds than I backed. I read that this sort of stuff is dominated by auto trading.
Are there any other methods you can recommend? I think arbing with bookmakers is a viable strategy but it's a massive issue getting money down at corporate bookmakers and arbs are rarely available with books like pinnacle.
Are there any other methods you can recommend? I think arbing with bookmakers is a viable strategy but it's a massive issue getting money down at corporate bookmakers and arbs are rarely available with books like pinnacle.
Arbing is a very short-term solution though and requires a lot of time and is a lot of hassle (especially when trading at the same time)
Do what Euler says, you can scale a lot more so you can generate more commission and sometimes make a profit too...also it saves all the hassle that comes with arbing (long-term)
Do what Euler says, you can scale a lot more so you can generate more commission and sometimes make a profit too...also it saves all the hassle that comes with arbing (long-term)
- BetScalper
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- Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:47 pm
Setup different accounts with different names and payment methods.
Wife, Partner, Son, Daughter etc.
Wife, Partner, Son, Daughter etc.
+1Naffman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:41 pmArbing is a very short-term solution though and requires a lot of time and is a lot of hassle (especially when trading at the same time)
Do what Euler says, you can scale a lot more so you can generate more commission and sometimes make a profit too...also it saves all the hassle that comes with arbing (long-term)
I'd agree with that, you could even set up some simple automated strategies just to generate commission so you don't even need to be at your PC (computer to avoid confusion )
- wearthefoxhat
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Also from location(s) that create different IP addresses.BetScalper wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:45 pmSetup different accounts with different names and payment methods.
Wife, Partner, Son, Daughter etc.
Now that's the hassle I'm talking aboutwearthefoxhat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:45 pmAlso from location(s) that create different IP addresses.BetScalper wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:45 pmSetup different accounts with different names and payment methods.
Wife, Partner, Son, Daughter etc.
I've asked a close friend on benefit, who doesn't gamble if I can set up a PayPal and series of bookie accounts in his name and split the profits with him. I thought he'd jump at the chance but he gave me a clear no. Not that he doesn't trust me, but understandably he's concerned about the consequences of the DWP finding out about funds in his name not declared.BetScalper wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:45 pmSetup different accounts with different names and payment methods.
Wife, Partner, Son, Daughter etc.
There are all sorts of things you won't think about but the person who's identity you want to borrow will.