Another Premium Charge question!

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acecard
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:39 pm

Derek27 wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:13 pm
acecard wrote:
Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:15 pm
You win £1000 this week, have paid £50 in comms through your trading and have a bank of £10000; you need to make up a further £150 in comms through churning, meaning you need 1 win of £3000 (assuming 5% comm and ignoring implied comm for the sake of simplicity), or 2 wins of £1500, or 5 wins of £600 etc.
Winning another £3000 won't solve the problem because you would pay PC on that!

What you need to do is lose money, but win it back on a parallel market to break even.

Assuming you pay 5% commission and win all the time, only half the commission you pay counts towards PC as implied commission resulting in 17.5% PC on top of the commission you pay. This means that you have to lose about £81 for each £100 you win to avoid PC altogether, but just reducing your profit to loss ratio can reduce PC.
Yeah, sorry I should've mentioned that when I wrote this, in my head I was thinking about churning with a breakeven strategy, so you win 3000, lose 3000. Not just gambling.
acecard
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:39 pm

Could someone please explain the rule "any win that makes up over 50% of your lifetime profits will not be used as part of the PC calculation"?

So, if I have profits for the week so far of £100 and I win £60 in one hit, clearly my PC for the week will only be calculated using the £100 gross profit. However, what happens after this? Are my gross profits now considered to be £160 for the week and therefore for a win to be excluded, it would be based on the £160, i.e. the win would have to be over £80. I'm talking about within the same week.

Any feedback much appreciated!
LinusP
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Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:45 pm

acecard wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:56 pm
Could someone please explain the rule "any win that makes up over 50% of your lifetime profits will not be used as part of the PC calculation"?

So, if I have profits for the week so far of £100 and I win £60 in one hit, clearly my PC for the week will only be calculated using the £100 gross profit. However, what happens after this? Are my gross profits now considered to be £160 for the week and therefore for a win to be excluded, it would be based on the £160, i.e. the win would have to be over £80. I'm talking about within the same week.

Any feedback much appreciated!
It’s lifetime, not per week.
acecard
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:39 pm

LinusP wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:11 pm
acecard wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:56 pm
Could someone please explain the rule "any win that makes up over 50% of your lifetime profits will not be used as part of the PC calculation"?

So, if I have profits for the week so far of £100 and I win £60 in one hit, clearly my PC for the week will only be calculated using the £100 gross profit. However, what happens after this? Are my gross profits now considered to be £160 for the week and therefore for a win to be excluded, it would be based on the £160, i.e. the win would have to be over £80. I'm talking about within the same week.

Any feedback much appreciated!
It’s lifetime, not per week.
Yes, but what if your weekly profits were your lifetime profits?

£100 is a bad example, but I was just using arbitrary values. The context would be that you managed to arb out of BF successfully each week so that each week you always maintained a negative/minimal lifetime profit value but then had the occasional large win on the BF side.

Thanks
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Derek27
Posts: 23478
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

acecard wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:56 pm
Could someone please explain the rule "any win that makes up over 50% of your lifetime profits will not be used as part of the PC calculation"?

So, if I have profits for the week so far of £100 and I win £60 in one hit, clearly my PC for the week will only be calculated using the £100 gross profit. However, what happens after this? Are my gross profits now considered to be £160 for the week and therefore for a win to be excluded, it would be based on the £160, i.e. the win would have to be over £80. I'm talking about within the same week.

Any feedback much appreciated!
The rule is there to exclude recreational players who lose but just happen to get a winning accumulator that wins £100K. It wouldn't be fair to take 20 grand of them.
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Derek27
Posts: 23478
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

acecard wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:03 pm
LinusP wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:11 pm
acecard wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:56 pm
Could someone please explain the rule "any win that makes up over 50% of your lifetime profits will not be used as part of the PC calculation"?

So, if I have profits for the week so far of £100 and I win £60 in one hit, clearly my PC for the week will only be calculated using the £100 gross profit. However, what happens after this? Are my gross profits now considered to be £160 for the week and therefore for a win to be excluded, it would be based on the £160, i.e. the win would have to be over £80. I'm talking about within the same week.

Any feedback much appreciated!
It’s lifetime, not per week.
Yes, but what if your weekly profits were your lifetime profits?

£100 is a bad example, but I was just using arbitrary values. The context would be that you managed to arb out of BF successfully each week so that each week you always maintained a negative/minimal lifetime profit value but then had the occasional large win on the BF side.

Thanks
Your weekly profit can only equal your lifetime profit in the first week of trading. You're not considered for PC until you've traded 250 markets. Besides, you start with a £1000 allowance.
acecard
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:39 pm

Derek27 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:06 pm
acecard wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:03 pm
LinusP wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:11 pm


It’s lifetime, not per week.
Yes, but what if your weekly profits were your lifetime profits?

£100 is a bad example, but I was just using arbitrary values. The context would be that you managed to arb out of BF successfully each week so that each week you always maintained a negative/minimal lifetime profit value but then had the occasional large win on the BF side.

Thanks
Your weekly profit can only equal your lifetime profit in the first week of trading. You're not considered for PC until you've traded 250 markets. Besides, you start with a £1000 allowance.
But if you're like me and managed to accumulate a nice hole before things started making sense then you would be able to profit for a little while whilst still actually not being eligible for PC, wouldn't you? Because despite profiting, your lifetime profit would be negative.

I'm just trying to work out how the 50% win rule is applied to multiple big wins in a week.
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Derek27
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Location: UK

If your lifetime profit is negative you cannot possibly be charged PC. If you have a big win that brings you into profit the big win will account for more than 100% of your lifetime profit so you won't be eligible for PC.

Try experimenting with this PC calculator. Enter the weekly amounts in the right-hand columns and then click on 'close week'. You can enter a largest profit in cell B20.
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acecard
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:39 pm

Derek27 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:40 pm
If your lifetime profit is negative you cannot possibly be charged PC. If you have a big win that brings you into profit the big win will account for more than 100% of your lifetime profit so you won't be eligible for PC.

Try experimenting with this PC calculator. Enter the weekly amounts in the right-hand columns and then click on 'close week'. You can enter a largest profit in cell B20.
Thanks, will have a little play around with that in a minute.
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Derek27
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Location: UK

acecard wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:25 pm
But if you're like me and managed to accumulate a nice hole before things started making sense...
I see what you mean.

You're asking if you lose £1000 and over a period of time win it back so you're breaking even, and then in the next week you win £100, your lifetime profit is equal to your weekly profit.

In those circumstances, after losing and winning back £1K, the commission percentage that you generated will equal infinity, because you've been paying commission but haven't won anything, rather like paying tax on no earnings. You only pay premium charge if both, your lifetime commission and last week's commission is less than 20%, so you wouldn't be required to pay PC until you've won approximately four times as much commission as you've generated.
Zipo
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:47 pm

Derek27 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:40 pm
If your lifetime profit is negative you cannot possibly be charged PC. If you have a big win that brings you into profit the big win will account for more than 100% of your lifetime profit so you won't be eligible for PC.

Try experimenting with this PC calculator. Enter the weekly amounts in the right-hand columns and then click on 'close week'. You can enter a largest profit in cell B20.
Thanks for the PC calculator.
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Derek27
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

No problem, and welcome to the forum. :)
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