1000 bets an hour $458 charge!!!!

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Vorogue18
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:22 am

Many years of inept betting and sports following, 5 years of disciplined betting and now 6 months of trading from newbie to moderately promising progress. Recently set up multitude of daily automated files covering all racing and numerous sports. Most trigger bets every 5 to 15 seconds and kill if unmatched shortly after. All live with stakes between $2 and $50.

Late arvo yesterday Australian time a tax charge of $458 appeared in Betfair account with the description 'Bet Txn Charge for over 1000 per hour'. Holy cow, huge chunk of my finances given I am a small player with little profit so far.

Fortunately I have a good relationship with account manager at Betfair and he reversed the debit within a few hours with the suggestion he will likely restrict the charge from happening again. No confirmation as yet and sorry if discussed on another thread but does anyone have info on this?
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Euler
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Location: Bet Angel HQ

There are a few threads on this on the forum which somebody will probably find and link to.

Most people don't pay the charge even if you exceed 1000 tx's as the charge is offset against commission you generate. So maybe tweak your strategy and avoid or add to the number of transactions by generating some commission.
Vorogue18
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:22 am

Thank you, was advised a few hours ago that charge has been waived for 3 months and will be reversed beyond that also..Manager is checking average transactions I make so I get a guide on what to refine. He didn't mention commission offset but I do pay enough through other means so that should avoid significant unexpected debits also.
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Dallas
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Here is one of those other threads
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=11376

You can also use the TX counter in Bet Angel to keep an eye on how many you're putting through each hour
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=11378
Vorogue18
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:22 am

Thanks Dallas, must have taken too much info in for my brain to handle when first joined.....I now remember reading that thread. So many little pitfalls to stay aware of but the counter makes it quite simple to monitor..cheers
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napshnap
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Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:21 am

Those over 1000 bets charges can be a pain in the ass, and it's not easy to spot them from your bf account, but here's a pretty simple and fast way to find out if you're being charged:
Go to your account -> transaction history -> download your transaction history -> open it with notepad (or excel) -> search for "DEBIT" (if you pay premium charges then filter out Wednesdays cause they have names similar to 1000 bets charges).
Tommolfc1990
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Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:42 pm

Dallas wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:50 am
Here is one of those other threads
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=11376

You can also use the TX counter in Bet Angel to keep an eye on how many you're putting through each hour
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=11378
Hi Dallas,

Thanks for this information. Does anybody know if it’s possible to have a condition on an automated file so that if the tx count gets to a certain figure then the bet will not fire?

Would save a lot of people being charged when first starting out
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ShaunWhite
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Vorogue18 wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:19 am
Thank you, was advised a few hours ago that charge has been waived for 3 months and will be reversed beyond that also.
How did you get that!? I'm also suprised to hear you've got an account manager if you're a "small player". Unless you're just being modest.
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Derek27
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

I can't even remember if I got an account manager. If I got one of those emails I wouldn't have paid much attention. What exactly do they do?
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Crazyskier
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Dallas wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:50 am
Here is one of those other threads
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=11376
Ha! Almost 4 years ago I started that thread. If only I knew then what I know now...

That said, I'd happily swap my wisdom for the 4 years back!! :lol: :lol:

CS
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:43 pm
Vorogue18 wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:19 am
Thank you, was advised a few hours ago that charge has been waived for 3 months and will be reversed beyond that also.
How did you get that!? I'm also suprised to hear you've got an account manager if you're a "small player". Unless you're just being modest.
The Australian side of the exchange seems to be a lot better managed as their gambling regs are a lot tighter.
Vorogue18
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:22 am

Derek27 wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:00 pm
I can't even remember if I got an account manager. If I got one of those emails I wouldn't have paid much attention. What exactly do they do?
Sorry Shaun, Derek missed your responses. Certainly a small player, opened BF acct 6 years ago to mainly arb promos, so the usual cluster of 2nd/3rd bonus bets, boosts etc was only traffic for first 2-3 years. Commission discount gradually increased as began using BF for own racing and tennis models (still moderate turnover) until maybe 2 years ago I received email advising my 'silver status' warranted a personal contact/manager. That opened up entry into a few BF comps, various subscription allowances and more info I guess.

Relationship probably went up a notch when I met manager at his office to discuss trading software a year ago, which led to signing up with BA. Luckily he is a ripping guy who is always willing to help out, thus removing 1000 transactions fee and even lifting me up another level so I could get a few more subscription discounts and enter more comps. BF ran a BA automation comp last month that spanned 6 Vic metro meetings and astonishingly I won 2 of the weeks and the overall comp which was financially very beneficial. One of the weeks my ROI was -1 ($0 return so obviously equal last place) and my finishing position that week was 12th!!! I really am still finding my way with trading/automation, my turnover is most definitely insignificant in comparison and the automation I used to win was a very, very simple pre-off market mover strategy, so quite surprised firstly at the lack of entrants and secondly, my result.

The other 2 staff in his office have been just as friendly and helpful and from what I can gather, I am just one of the Aussie masses who receive this service. I wrote a very positive testimonial about my experiences using BF/BA after winning the comp which the manager was very appreciative of and will be forwarding to Racing Victoria to help promote further automated comps and their own cause....so either I just struck it lucky with the relationship I have with Betfair, I'm really good at sucking up, or Aus Betfair really do care about their customer relations way more than in the UK...not sure which!!
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ShaunWhite
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Thx for the update, very interesting. BF AU certainly seems to engage with their customers more than BF UK.
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gstar1975
Posts: 615
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:59 am

Update on the Terms for this:

7.3 A 'transaction' shall include all bets placed and all failed transactions. Transaction Charges only apply to customers recording more than 5000 transactions an hour. 7.4 For the purpose of calculating Transaction Charges, an “hour” means a continuous period of 60 minutes based on the standard 24-hour clock system.
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Dallas
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Location: Working From Home

Probably best to add the link to the latest topic after these changes
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=21360
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