Gambling

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oliver123
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:25 am

I listened to a very interesting item on BBC5 Live this week. It was to do with those obnoxious FOBTs (Fixed Odds Betting Terminals). One guy called in who was a self-confessed gambling addict who had blown 10s of thousands on betting/gambling but it was the FOBTs that turned him into what he alluded to as the 'cocaine Hell of gambling'. It took me back to about two years ago whilst having a beer in a pub and there was this guy was using one of those machines. He was losing. How did I know? Because literally about one yard from the terminal was an ATM machine - how convenient! He withdrew some money and went back to the FOBT. About ten minutes later, he was back at the ATM. It was pathetically sad.

What was also alarming was, just recently, the Government's Gaming Commission found that 0.8% of adults can be classed as having a gambling problem that equated to more than 400,000 people. That's scary! It got me thinking about Betfair. Now I have been using Betfair for approximately 10 years and during this time I have been gainfully employed and married. But I have heard it said that people who use Betfair are no different from those dimwits who gamble on FOBTs and online casinos.

So, are we gamblers? My personal belief is that everything is a gamble in life; from crossing a busy high street, eating a dodgy helping of fish and chips, not knowing if you'll be employed next week/month, etc. Even BetAngel 'traders' cannot sepearte themselves from gamblers because as soon as you take a back/lay position (for instance on a horse race before the off) you must know that it could go against you. So you are gambling - betting. I suppose the point that separates us Betfair/BetAngel users is that we utilise money management.

The guy who phoned in made a relevant point. He stated that on many occasions he was up for, say £1,000, but continued to gamble with the thought of making another grand. Of course he ended up losing that money instead of just coming off the terminal and going home to his wife. How many times have we been in the same position or, alternatively, been chasing our losses?

Oh and by the way, just up by over £700 on the donkeys!!!
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Derek27
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Location: UK

Trading is gambling, but whatever form of gambling you choose, there are low risk and high risk strategies.

Gambling is a mugs game if you don't know what you are doing, it's an addiction if you can't control it, but that aside it can be highly profitable, a profession, rewarding and intellectually challenging.

I've seen people lose fortunes on the machines in a short space of time and I really do sympathise with them. What I find even more astonishing is where do they get the money from?

You'd have to have a well paid job to lose so much in ten minutes!
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northbound
Posts: 737
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:22 pm

I believe that the difference between gamblers and problem gamblers is simply emotional control. One has it, the other doesn't.

Gambling itself is just an activity. Like smoking, eating, walking, having sex, travelling.

If I'm in debt because I want to have 6 trips every year when I can only afford 2, the problem is not travelling: it's my lack of emotional control when it comes to travelling.
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Derek27
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Location: UK

That's spot-on Northbound.
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Dublin_Flyer
Posts: 688
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:39 am

I think it's an all-in or not all-in kinda thing.

Gambling is all-in, you're 500 all-in, you win your 500 + winnings back, or you lose 500.

Trading is more controlled, you win or lose whatever your emotion/automation allows you to, as long as your get out points are right on the plus or minus side. However with trading you can scale out your stake if it's going for or against you to protect your initial stake, give more breathing space and reduce possible loss, or reduce your total loss if it's definitely going against you and you don't want to keep positions in play, cos that means your remaining stake is all-in and now you're gambling! :lol:
stueytrader
Posts: 863
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:47 pm

northbound wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:01 pm
I believe that the difference between gamblers and problem gamblers is simply emotional control. One has it, the other doesn't.

Gambling itself is just an activity. Like smoking, eating, walking, having sex, travelling.

If I'm in debt because I want to have 6 trips every year when I can only afford 2, the problem is not travelling: it's my lack of emotional control when it comes to travelling.
Partly agree, though think it's also worth considering the impact of the said activity. Gambling (and poss trading) have very specific effects upon the person - adds physical and psychological rushes to the system. So, the problem gamblers are essentially (at least in part) created by the activity and it's features. Of course, that might also interact with the basic nature of the person too, but I think it's wrong to ignore the specific elements and effects of the activity itself. If there's a problem, then you can look at changing aspects of the activity itself, in a more positive way.
stueytrader
Posts: 863
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:47 pm

This is also why more 'gamblers' should consider becoming 'traders' essentially. It's a better activity.
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Crazyskier
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:36 pm

We've had this chat before; It's all about semantics essentially.

Betting, gambling. wagering, trading, call it what you will, undeniably they all have elements of risk to lesser or greater degree. Even the greatest traders and poker players with the very best skills have losses from time to time. It's the long game that counts and sad that so many insist on indulging in self-deception and staking more than they can afford to lose, often having to learn the hard way rather than learn from the mistakes of others.

The key is how you manage the risk and how you deal with the inevitable losses when they occur. Bankroll management discipline and removing the immediate knee-jerk responses to loss (by using automation) are the only way impulsive gamblers like me can make even remotely consistent profits from Betfair.

My tuppeny worth anyhow :D

CS
Alpha322
Posts: 843
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:45 pm

What it really is is GAMBELLERS want to become top traders over night, they try the pre race thing, dont work for them then they go in play (Mindset emotions create them to play as a gamball), when it goes pete tong they blame BA is S**t and its nothing but gambaling, well am sorry it aint. This takes skill and long term investment return. For instance i play a £2000 bankroll, odds between 1.5-5.0 my total risk position at any one time of that roll is 40% and thats at odds on, that is the gamble being opened up at £800, but its only a gamble till you get your trade, in my case 1%, 10 trades at 1% =10% so to make £200 per trading day do the sums, yes i may lose some trades but i try to come out with that 10% for the day, not a bundle of money, my bundle of money shows itself after 30 days or a quarter so trading is far far no way like FOBT, play a FOBT for 30 days or 3 months then add up your totals, please dont insult this game, and if you enjoy it like i do and taking losses then its not for one. As soon as you can accept you will have bad days aswell as good then your mindset towards trading is on cue, its about the overal gaining more than you lose and if you have a edge then your sure to have more winners than lossers
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bennyboy351
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 6:01 pm
Location: West Midlands, England.

I can see - and agree with - both sides of this arguement, but I believe that there are (and always will be!) aspects of 'trading' that are set up in such a way that only those 'in the know' will make really big money. :-)
trader44
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:28 pm

are you all pre race alpha and do you stop when you have your 10% for the day
Dinkydid1
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 11:47 am

I can see - and agree with - both sides of this arguement, but I believe that there are (and always will be!) aspects of 'trading' that are set up in such a way that only those 'in the know' will make really big money. :-)

I have lost loads of cash and i have only used £2.00 stakes for anyone to say you can't lose much with £2.00 stakes is wrong. because i have lost over £400.00
my problem is the same as yours i am not afraid of making a trade the trouble is i do not understand what i am doing wrong.
I have somehow acquired a Jackal and Hyde approach to Bet Angel

Mr Jackal whispers in my ear There's No Fool Like an Old fool a man in his seventieth year should have more Bloody sense it's all a con. Have you lost your marbles?

Mr Hyde whispers in my ear I might be nearly Seventy and i still have my marbles There is something in this trading lark but how the bloody hell do i get it right. I know i have had some good trades but lost it all through bad mistakes
if only I could stop making them i would be alright

That was Saturday

Today Zero in my bank again! oh dear

"What are you going to do now Mr Hyde"

Thinking of taking the course it's only £399.00 can't do any harm Mr Jackal.

That takes the biscuit Mr Hyde

I thought you had a SLATE LOOSE but i THINK THE ROOFS COME OFF

OH shut up Mr Jackal

Wished I knew what to do
Gambling yes

But as you say only them in the know will ever win

Final word from Mr Jackal
If we all. were good at trading there would be suckers for the traders
without looser's there is no trade

Final word from Mr Hyde

I Will give it one more go (well i might will have to sleep on it) I may get inspired
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Derek27
Posts: 23475
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Hi Dinkydid1,

You've already posted the best part of that text on another thread.

The best advice I can give you if you're losing a lot of money: either stop trading altogether, use a small bank, or just trade in practice mode. There's no point in just having another go because the results are likely to be the same as before unless you make changes to what you're doing and find an edge.

Don't listen to Mr. Hyde!
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Euler
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Location: Bet Angel HQ

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Black Ice
Posts: 258
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Location: Newmarket Suffolk

G8888 vid Euler...LOL. :D .but I'm sure very true too!
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