Basic First Trades

[ruthlessimon]

with a one-dimensional approach he has to constantly make absolute decisions where to enter and where to exit which can be very stressful, even if the trade is going well there's always that fear of the price quickly pulling back, so why not exit half of the stake at some point to secure a bit more breathing space both on the ladder and in his mind to feel more in control. We're all aware that good execution and proper risk/position management is an edge in itself even by trading completely at random by cutting bad trades and letting the good ones run, so why not start learning towards that.

Or is that instilling negative expectancy habits early on?

To me, discretion is an extremely advanced skill – I’ve been trading quite a while, & tbh still struggle to justify why I’m a manual trader!

I’m always deeply uncomfortable with emotional (fear based) exits; & honestly believe that the idea “any win is a good win” is dangerous. If I win 10ticks; but should’ve won 30ticks – that’s a 20tick loss. To many of those markets, & we could be -EV

I have to say, that’s the first time I’ve seen absolute decisions be called stressful. In some ways yes; but imho, no. We’re only gonna need to focus hard for a couple of seconds, checking all the criteria are aligned, place a stop. Done. Then we’re free to watch it play out, make a cuppa, have a quick dank meme browse or whatever – what could be better when learning!! The stressful bit is having the guts to watch it play out, & not negatively effect it

[Kai]

I’m always deeply uncomfortable with emotional (fear based) exits; & honestly believe that the idea “any win is a good win” is dangerous.

That's actually exactly why I suggested to split the stakes, to help avoid fear based exits and other emotions and only focus on the execution and getting used to all the noise and the general ebb and flow of the market.

I have to say, that’s the first time I’ve seen absolute decisions be called stressful. In some ways yes; but imho, no.

This is all in the context of a newbie trader that is not yet familiar with swing trading or the emotions that come with it. Just looking to spare him some of the emotional roller coaster that he'll be going through when being forced to make absolute decisions without knowing what to do most of the time. Not much point in trying to conquer your fears or mastering your emotions when you're using small stakes, he will still need to go through that emotional phase once he starts scaling up but at least he'll be able to fall back on his execution to get through it.

[ruthlessimon]

when being forced to make absolute decisions without knowing what to do most of the time.

Should such a trader even be attempting to trade live?

If I was gonna start all over again; my immediate focus would be "what data do I need collect?" "how should that data be collected?" "What am I roughly looking for?" - now that's either gonna require a mentor, or Peter's course. Also the benefit, is that such a trader wouldn't need to quit their job etc. Then we've got a sandbox, where we can simulate thousands of ideas/strategies, out of hrs. The dilemma comes when something appears to work.

I made the mistake of believing I'd be one of the 5%, who wouldn't need to do that work - arrive in the 1st week, gung-ho, discretionary, no data, & crack it - the next Heathcote. That cost me 1yr - hence I'm always gonna be an advocate of a strong edge first (strong = could be automated), before even starting to trade live. Then we can start playing with execution etc, the stuff that will become necessary as we rise through the ranks, & stakes

[Kai]

when being forced to make absolute decisions without knowing what to do most of the time.

Should such a trader even be attempting to trade live?

Absolutely, how else is he going to learn? Wasn't it Peter that more than once suggested that a newbie should start trading completely at random by managing his positions as best as he could, experiencing all kinds of situations and getting a feel for the markets almost by trial and error etc.

Can. Of. Worms.

Given the context (i.e. First trades) I have to disagree. There is nothing better than 1 entry, 1 exit. Keep it as rigid & basic as possible. So much easier to spot the errors that way - with the plan, & our own demons (assuming a new trader has a plan!!)

To go back to the thing you said earlier, I think we are more or less on the same page I do agree that he should keep things as rigid and basic as possible to start with, but only regarding the setup that he is looking for in a market, that's why I linked the first video about steamers. Regarding the execution I feel it's beneficial to adopt a different approach and experiment a bit to see what type of style he actually prefers.

[ruthlessimon]

Absolutely, how else is he going to learn? Wasn't it Peter that more than once suggested that a newbie should start trading completely at random by managing his positions as best as he could, experiencing all kinds of situations and getting a feel for the markets almost by trial and error etc.

Yeah, I guess that's true - but random with a purpose on nags (consistent randomness). "I'm looking for a breakout", "how many ways can I define a breakout", "I'm looking for a reversal", "I'm looking for a pullback", "I'm looking for a back" (I like that one ). Maybe I'm a tight bastard, but I prefer doing those types of tests on a spreadsheet. Doing that live, & I reckon I'd get savaged by the market

To go back to the thing you said earlier, I think we are more or less on the same page

I've enjoyed it; Problem is, I come from a household where talking trading (especially sport) is verboten (just don't get it) - so I've gotta get bits off my chest at times, if I see a nice looking thread

[fullchat]

Wow you guys are are shining a light on all sorts of strategies some I can see others will come later I hope, I realised that I was maybe not quite scalping initially, more starting a trade and then closing it but too frightened to see how far I could go and when I did let it ride it seemed to late sometimes to make a profit as the trade had gone through my fingers. Now I'm doing 2-3 ticks and closing and then repeating things while the market allows me to. I have also viewed loads of Peters videos too which help so much.

Thanks guys

[Kai]

I've enjoyed it; Problem is, I come from a household where talking trading (especially sport) is verboten (just don't get it) - so I've gotta get bits off my chest at times, if I see a nice looking thread

I feel you, talking sports trading is definitely not haram on this forum. Unless your name is Mel The Scientology Trader