Trading today at Goodwood. In the 3.45, having already made a small scalping profit inplay, I spotted an opportunity to squeeze a little extra out of it by backing Loxley to win near the finish. The result was a dead heat, thinking that would work like any other bookmaker I expected a greatly reduced profit, but a profit none the less. What I got was a loss. The reason being that Betfair keep the entire stake.
This made me feel as though I'd been swindled. I spoke to BF through the help chat room but was just told it was in the rules. They're right. But who would go looking for a rule no other bookmaker would employ?
When you add this to all the other BF sharp practices, particularly the premium charge, I suddenly wondered why we put up with it when there are other exchanges.
Having spoken to several players about this the same reason comes up, liquidity.
I've used Betdaq, it's perfectly alright except for the liquidity, which currently makes it a real problem. But isn't the answer really simple. The liquidity is poor because everyone is on BF. If everybody who complains about BF switched across the liquidity would increase over night.
betdaq has no premium charge, that alone is surely reason enough to switch.
What is needed is an organised coup. Set a date, like Jan2 2018, and move across on mass. That's all it would take to create a new start for traders on a fair platform. Anyone for change?
Trading in Betfair for Betdaq ....Is it time?
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spreadbetting
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Betfair use the same rules as any other bookmaker when it comes to Dead Heats, you get the odds you requested but your stake is divided by the number of winners. So in a dead heat for two runners and you backed £100 at 2 you'd get a £50 stake bet at 2's and a return of £100,, i.e. £50 winnings and £50 returned stake. It's no different with any bookmaker, maybe the customer service rep didn't explain it to you properly as to return a loss you obviously bet at odds on.
Perhaps so, I stand corrected, but dead heats don't happen enough to worry about and it's not the biggest issue anway. It was just an incident that got me thinking.
But the premium rate is something else. I am not a high roller. It's grossly unfair. As stated, that is reason enough to change. Surely nobody wants to pay it, not on top of commission fees.
Betdaq is a real possibility if traders want to get out from under the BF monopoly yoke, but a move would have to happen en mass to create the liquidity. I've been with Betfair since 2002 and they have changed a good deal in character. At the start they were the punters friend, saving us from the manipulated markets of the high street bookies, all that is changed. And it's time we did too....in my humble opinion.
But the premium rate is something else. I am not a high roller. It's grossly unfair. As stated, that is reason enough to change. Surely nobody wants to pay it, not on top of commission fees.
Betdaq is a real possibility if traders want to get out from under the BF monopoly yoke, but a move would have to happen en mass to create the liquidity. I've been with Betfair since 2002 and they have changed a good deal in character. At the start they were the punters friend, saving us from the manipulated markets of the high street bookies, all that is changed. And it's time we did too....in my humble opinion.
Last edited by adhuk on Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
so you are going to organise something then? are you going to put the time and energy in to set up and run some sort of campaign etc? possibly a few websites, twitter accounts, adverts in the racing/football press and so on?adhuk wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:51 pmPerhaps so, but dead heats don't happen enough to worry about. But the premium rate is something else. I have just started to be charged. I am not a high roller. It's grossly unfair. As stated, that is reason enough to change. Surely nobody wants to pay it, not on top of commission fees.
Betdaq is a real possibility if traders want to get out from under the BF monopoly yoke, but a move would have to happen en mass to create the liquidity.
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ShaunWhite
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If 'we' all move to BD, who are we going to make a profit from? each other?
In your world, when BD is bigger than BF, who do you think will have the premium charge and who will have the 0% commish deal on? I'm afraid your grand anti-capitalist coup isn't quite as simple as it seems. Nice try though.
Who do you think you make money from now? Who do you think commodity traders make money from in the 'pit'? That's right, each other. For everyone that wins somebody else loses. And that's before premium charges.
Yes, Betdaq may introduce a premium charge in the future, but they don't right now. On the other hand their owners, Ladbrokes, may see what happens to Betfair and decide against it...or at least decide against such a grossly inflated charge.
I'm no anti-capitalist. Perhaps you don't remember what it used to be like on Betfair. Before the city took over and screwed up pre-race scalping for the small traders.
I'm not suggesting burning down the Houses of Parliament, I'm suggesting people move to a fairer exchange.
Anyway it's only a sounding. Perhaps people don't mind paying the charge.
Yes, Betdaq may introduce a premium charge in the future, but they don't right now. On the other hand their owners, Ladbrokes, may see what happens to Betfair and decide against it...or at least decide against such a grossly inflated charge.
I'm no anti-capitalist. Perhaps you don't remember what it used to be like on Betfair. Before the city took over and screwed up pre-race scalping for the small traders.
I'm not suggesting burning down the Houses of Parliament, I'm suggesting people move to a fairer exchange.
Anyway it's only a sounding. Perhaps people don't mind paying the charge.
Every time BF goes down for an afternoon or for a couple of hours on a busy day, everyone says we should all move to Betdaq, but no-one ever does. So the chances of everyone moving when BF is operating fine are nil.
Which does baffle me, I must admit.
Which does baffle me, I must admit.
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spreadbetting
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People have been trying to get everyone to switch over ever since the first pc came out but nothings happened so why will it now. I'd guess very little profit comes from the mug traders it all comes from the mug punters who have no reason to switch.
@ weemac I doubt most people have fully funded betdaq accounts so it's usually not worth the effort to switch for the odd few hours Betfair crashes each year
@ weemac I doubt most people have fully funded betdaq accounts so it's usually not worth the effort to switch for the odd few hours Betfair crashes each year
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ShaunWhite
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That's vastly oversimplified and assumes that the only players in the game are the traders. Traders everywhere take a little bit of value from the seller and a little bit of value from the buyer. They are merely a conduit. Extrapolate to a market one buyer and one seller and one trader.
Do I remember pre-pc? I remember trading pre computers when couriers used to flit around the city with bundles of bonds so I'm fairly au fait with how an economy functions.