Living in London

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Derek27
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Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Cards37 wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:36 am
I don't mean to hijack the thread but as an Australian this is intriguing to me. Can we discuss more in another thread? Would love to hear why many of you feel this way.
In my view walking the streets of any city in the UK is like going back in time a few centuries!

Sure we have all the technology, but we also have thousands of people living on the streets, many who freeze to death in the winter - not the sort of thing you expect in 21st century Britain.

You may have heard that a royal wedding is about to take place. There was a news report about the council planning to clear the streets of homeless people for the wedding as though they're trash that can simply be swept away, rather than human beings who have been badly let down by their own government. :x
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LeTiss
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There is an elephant in the room with this discussion.......it's called Islam

We live in a world governed by PC. You cannot have a view on rising Muslim numbers without somebody called you a racist

I don't give a shit.

In a few years, nothing will ever get done in London, as everybody will too busy washing their flipping feet, hands and faces
The world of business will work around prayer times, and you won't see any women anymore,as it will have become a city full of burkhas

But hey, I'm just a run of the mill white guy, what do I know
sa7med
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Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 8:01 am

LeTiss wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:15 am
There is an elephant in the room with this discussion.......it's called Islam
oh wow, i didn't see that elephant there - as far as i know homelessness predates islam. Honestly, a bit surprised to see that sort of thing coming from a trader - who generally have their insights backed up with numbers & reason and not impulse. I believe what you are utilizing here is called the slippery slope fallacy. There are majority muslim countries where the majority don't wear burkhas and life does not revolve around prayer times, so why should that occur in a non-muslim majority country with a history that stretches back thousands of years? And if you're referring to the handful of muslim countries where burkhas and prayer times are a way of life, well i'd suggest you'd reach into the history books and find out who is responsible for putting those wackos in power in the first place :p

Im not one for religion personally but if you buy into it fine...that's your call, why should I care? for the most part people are just the same: normal & boring who just want to live their lives, with wackos all around on all sides. To be honest, im more worried about the people who care a great deal about what others choose to believe in.

"But hey, I'm just a run of the mill white guy, what do I know"
what does it matter that you're white? why do you make this distinction? if i peered into your genes, id have no idea what colour you are. it only matters because you make it matter. Do you care which colour horse wins the race?
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LeTiss
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My response was overly confrontational, I accept that

However, PC has become incredibly dangerous. In a 'free' country, the 2 things which define freedom are -
A) Having the freedom to form your own opinions about things
B) Having the freedom to voice those opinions

PC is oil and water to those freedoms, as it brainwashes and gags people

The situation with the Muslim community sums that up perfectly, hence why when we see situations like Rotherham and Telford, there is an elephant in the room, in the sense we are not allowed to comment on the rapists being Muslim

London is full of Mosques, it has a Muslim Mayor, and many don't like the way the city is descending into becoming something akin to Pakistan

My apologies if you find that offensive
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Cards37
Posts: 234
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:40 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Interesting. Over here we all scratch our heads at Brexit and it seems like the height of insanity - eclipsed only by the Americans electing Trump. We don't really get an 'on the ground' view.

Islam is an issue here too but not to that extent. It is largely overblown really here.
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northbound
Posts: 737
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:22 pm

Derek27 wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:06 am
Sure we have all the technology, but we also have thousands of people living on the streets, many who freeze to death in the winter - not the sort of thing you expect in 21st century Britain.
I believe us traders should be the last people to complain about inequality.

The mechanism that make the rich get richer and forces people to sleep in the streets is the same mechanism that makes a trader not share his winning strategies with struggling traders.

Inequality is deeply ingrained in all things human. Life is one big "every man for himself" game.
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brimson25
Posts: 504
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LeTiss wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:14 am
My response was overly confrontational, I accept that

However, PC has become incredibly dangerous. In a 'free' country, the 2 things which define freedom are -
A) Having the freedom to form your own opinions about things
B) Having the freedom to voice those opinions

PC is oil and water to those freedoms, as it brainwashes and gags people

The situation with the Muslim community sums that up perfectly, hence why when we see situations like Rotherham and Telford, there is an elephant in the room, in the sense we are not allowed to comment on the rapists being Muslim

London is full of Mosques, it has a Muslim Mayor, and many don't like the way the city is descending into becoming something akin to Pakistan

My apologies if you find that offensive
PC is a vexed term. Some of the people objecting to "PC" are objecting to the removal of their apparent right to be mindlessly rude. As an example, I was born in 1978, very prematurely, and as a result I have cerebral palsy. My mum was told, minutes after my birth, that I would be "a cabbage" by a doctor.

Setting aside that verdict on someone with a degree from LSE and a professional career of several decades, let's consider the language.

I don't think that language was acceptable then, and neither is it now.

Is that PC? I know that the doctor felt implicitly licenced to use that language to a woman who had just given birth. I would be surprised if a similar term were used today. So, I argue that there is been a positive shift in social attitudes in this narrow context. I don't think people should be prevented from thinking and discussing as they so wish. But I don't think it was a better world when borish people felt entitled to say things like that.

My point simply is, lets be precise. "PC" as a inhibiter of freedom of thought = bad; PC as a reminder that some standards of politeness ought not to be transgressed, maybe not so bad....
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Derek27
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Location: UK

northbound wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:26 am
Derek27 wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:06 am
Sure we have all the technology, but we also have thousands of people living on the streets, many who freeze to death in the winter - not the sort of thing you expect in 21st century Britain.
I believe us traders should be the last people to complain about inequality.

The mechanism that make the rich get richer and forces people to sleep in the streets is the same mechanism that makes a trader not share his winning strategies with struggling traders.

Inequality is deeply ingrained in all things human. Life is one big "every man for himself" game.
It's one thing making money off people who choose to gamble it (and could have spent it on food if they needed to), it's quite another to let people starve/freeze to death and walk past their bodies on the street.
sa7med
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 8:01 am

LeTiss wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:14 am
My response was overly confrontational, I accept that

However, PC has become incredibly dangerous. In a 'free' country, the 2 things which define freedom are -
A) Having the freedom to form your own opinions about things
B) Having the freedom to voice those opinions

PC is oil and water to those freedoms, as it brainwashes and gags people

The situation with the Muslim community sums that up perfectly, hence why when we see situations like Rotherham and Telford, there is an elephant in the room, in the sense we are not allowed to comment on the rapists being Muslim

London is full of Mosques, it has a Muslim Mayor, and many don't like the way the city is descending into becoming something akin to Pakistan

My apologies if you find that offensive
What bothers me isn't what you say or how you say it but rather the flaws in the arguments. Rapists are rapists because they are rapists, not because they are one religion or another. This is another type of fallacy: a hasty generalization. Whether they are muslims or not is beside the point.

I spend A LOT of time in London and have seen less Mosques than I can count on one hand, but even if there is a rise in Mosque numbers - why does it matter? You talk about a 'free' country, and define it with 2 points; but I would argue there's more to it than that. Doesn't 'freedom of religion' belong in that list as well? and yes, London does have a muslim Mayor, but should that be his defining quality? Shouldnt he be judged based on merit rather than which being he chooses to believe in?

Im not asking you to be PC mate nor am I offended, I dont give a shit. I'd rather win you over to the idea that people are generally okay: whatever creed they may hail from and that there's usually more than meets the eye.
mobius
Posts: 203
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:15 am

Tried living in london for 6 mths - didn't like it - buggered off back home- much happier for it. EOS. :mrgreen:
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northbound
Posts: 737
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:22 pm

Derek27 wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:48 am
It's one thing making money off people who choose to gamble it (and could have spent it on food if they needed to), it's quite another to let people starve/freeze to death and walk past their bodies on the street.
In theory there should be a difference, yes. In practice, there is none. Because certain inequality mechanisms are deeply ingrained in everything human.
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BetScalper
Posts: 1139
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:47 pm

All the homeless people in the UK should descend on Windsor for the wedding.

Then the rest of the UK, Europe and the World will see what the UK really is all about.

I always found it odd and disgusting that when they built the stadium for the Olympics that they put lots of homeless people on trains to get them out of London. Many of which landed in Brighton with nothing. Council are not interested in helping them for one reason or another.

I don't consider the UK to be a rich country.

If it is then it has no flipping morals whatsoever.
Trader Pat
Posts: 4327
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:50 pm

The homeless issue isnt as black and white as it seems. People generally think if you give a homeless person somewhere to live then the problem is solved but in a lot of cases its not.

When I was younger I started volunteering for a homeless charity here in Dublin. Speaking to the homeless it becomes very clear very quickly that there is a lot of addiction and mental illness. Hostels have a strict no drink no drugs policy so most addicts dont really have a choice but to stay on the street. When the really cold snap hit here a few months back 2 homeless men were found dead in sleeping bags in doorways one just around the corner from the government buildings, the really tragic thing is both of these men refused hostel accomodation in the days leading up to their death because they were alcoholics and needed to drink. Governments here and in the UK need to do more to battle addiction in homeless shelters and then there is mental illness which is another broad spectrum of problems with few solutions for the poor souls who find themselves on the street.
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SeaHorseRacing
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Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 7:06 pm

I’m a trader and the number 1 reason I will be moving out of the UK in a few years... is because of Islam. Nothing else to be said from me.

Good luck to the Royal Family in about 30 years. As the future progresses our inventions and technologies should be pushing away from religion but somehow it’s going the other way.
max_usted
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:07 pm

brimson25 wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:40 am
LeTiss wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:14 am
My response was overly confrontational, I accept that

However, PC has become incredibly dangerous. In a 'free' country, the 2 things which define freedom are -
A) Having the freedom to form your own opinions about things
B) Having the freedom to voice those opinions

PC is oil and water to those freedoms, as it brainwashes and gags people

The situation with the Muslim community sums that up perfectly, hence why when we see situations like Rotherham and Telford, there is an elephant in the room, in the sense we are not allowed to comment on the rapists being Muslim

London is full of Mosques, it has a Muslim Mayor, and many don't like the way the city is descending into becoming something akin to Pakistan

My apologies if you find that offensive
PC is a vexed term. Some of the people objecting to "PC" are objecting to the removal of their apparent right to be mindlessly rude. As an example, I was born in 1978, very prematurely, and as a result I have cerebral palsy. My mum was told, minutes after my birth, that I would be "a cabbage" by a doctor.

Setting aside that verdict on someone with a degree from LSE and a professional career of several decades, let's consider the language.

I don't think that language was acceptable then, and neither is it now.

Is that PC?
No that is *politeness* - i.e. behaviour that is behaviour that is respectful and considerate of other people.

People who would commonly be described as being 'politically correct' are often very impolite in terms of their behaviour - i.e. they show zero interest in being respectful and considerate of other people, in fact the ideology actually gives license to adherents' most boorish impulses.

Therefore it is important that the terms are clearly distinguished - pretending that Political Correctness is in fact a substitute for standards on individual politeness is very wrong and gives PC adherents justification for their religious zealot-style behaviour and boorishness.

I'm very firmly in the Le Tiss camp, I loathe PC more than anything else. Garbage. I believe that Political Correctness (the ideology) has and will be highly deleterious to British standards of politeness, social discourse and society in the long run.

And by the way, I am *polite* (but not Politically Correct) myself and do very much believe in politeness where you are not familiar with whomever you are talking to.
Last edited by max_usted on Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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