I agree Max.
I could give 100 reasons why I am out of this country.
Living in London
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Trader Pat
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As a matter of interest where you thinking of going to?SeaHorseRacing wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:57 pmI agree Max.
I could give 100 reasons why I am out of this country.
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ShaunWhite
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Where you moving to shr? Are you going to be seeking asylum or being an ecomomic migrant?
Funnily enough I happen to be a New Yorker and I've been to playgrounds there that are more dangerous than anywhere ive been in London. Can't see how you'd say that considering New York's homicide rate is 3x London's. Maybe you should move to the Bronx :p Let me know I've got some pals who could hook you up! East Side!SeaHorseRacing wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:51 pmRant over.
London has fallen. I’m only 30 used to go regularly as a kid. Was a wonderful place.
It’s now possible the worse city I have ever visited. Ever been to New York City at night in the bronx. London feels like that during the day.
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Kafkaesque
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Followed by
Freedom of speech is essential to a free country (and by implication I should be allowed to say what I want about Muslims). Calling you a racist; how dare people SPEAK such words about you. Do you seriously not see the hypocracy?
I somewhat agree with sa7med's response in the very next post, but you did toss it in there at the end of a rant, so....as a white male you (we, as it were, to be clear) have a foot up on the vast majority of the world's population, before you start life's journey. Our ancestors built this priviliged position off the backs, suffering and death of pretty much every other ethnicity on the planet (and women). When this position is under siege, it must be someone else's fault and failings, surely.
The level of ignorance in that one sentence is quite astounding. I should make clear that I'm a not a rose-tinted glasses leftie. Islamic fundamentalism is a real concern, as is migration - be it refugees or economic migration - but the real problem isn't Islam. Rather it's ignorance. And that's as dangerous whether you're a Muslim, Christian, Atheist or something else entirely.SeaHorseRacing wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:31 pmThe Koran insights hate speech in nearly every verse.
It's ignorance that makes men and women blindly do horrendous things for causes, they do not fully understand, for power hungry leaders.
I don't have the solution; I just firmly believe two things.
First that we will not solve the issues at hand by making stoking the fire of us versus them, and creating hate speech on our side of things, as much as some of "them" do.
Secondly that we have absolutely zero right to claim a moral high ground, because we've developed certain principels within the last half a century or so, when we were at least as bad as anyone for much, much longer before then, and arguably still are.
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ShaunWhite
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London's just like any other city, places you go places you don't.sa7med wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:02 pmFunnily enough I happen to be a New Yorker and I've been to playgrounds there that are more dangerous than anywhere ive been in London.SeaHorseRacing wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:51 pmIt’s now possible the worse city I have ever visited.
Work sent me to Cape Town for a year once, nice beach house 1/2mile north of town, dolphins in the sea, lovely......But you do NOT want to turn left instead of right when you leave the house! 20yrs in London and I never felt the same fear driving through Streatham. The CT office used to issue visitors with crappy cars so they didn't get targetted. Well that's what they told me anyway
Grass is always greener on the other side.
Absolutely, but compare the places you don't go in London to those in NYC. No comparison. It's better now than it was in the 90s but still...ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:29 pmLondon's just like any other city, places you go places you don't.sa7med wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:02 pmFunnily enough I happen to be a New Yorker and I've been to playgrounds there that are more dangerous than anywhere ive been in London.SeaHorseRacing wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:51 pmIt’s now possible the worse city I have ever visited.
Before I was 10 I had one friend shot dead and another's family murdered in their own home and I lived in the cozy suburbs!
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ShaunWhite
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firlandsfarm
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How would you feel if your government said ... Hey great news, we have decided to form an alliance with New Zealand, Polynesia (and others from the South Pacific), it going to be called The SPA. The SPA will be run in part by elected MP's from all countries and in part by Appointees of those countries. Each unelected Appointee will be given an area of government to manage and will set policy (so an unelected Samoan could be responsible for setting out Australia's agricultural policy). Also if an Australian Court gives a final ruling on a legal matter the losing party could appeal to unelected judges within The SPA who could overrule the Australian Court decision and reverse it. The SPA would also have the power to tell the Australian government what laws they have to enact and what laws they cannot enact. Australia will not be able to negotiate it's own trade agreements around the world, these will be negotiated by The SPA and will be binding upon Australia. ... now which is the height of insanity, Brexit or Australia giving away it's ability to govern itself?
As for Trump ... what has he done wrong?
Bandwagon jumping has become a fashionable pastime. If you are not on the latest fashionable bandwagon you are seen as a pariah and a Philistine
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firlandsfarm
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That is overly simplistic, some rapists are religiously motivated, it's in their culture. In Pakistan some see tribal gang rape as a punishment with the expectation that the victim will be so ashamed after that she commits suicide. That has nothing to do with "being a rapist". The likes of the recent grooming gangs are not rapists they honestly believe that because of the way western girls dress they are expecting to be raped, it's cultural.
Islam needs to stop living in denial if it wants to integrate with the west.
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firlandsfarm
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Not anymore it's not ... London's murder rate is now higher than New York!
Simply not true. I know this is what some media would have you believe, but it's just not true. Look it upfirlandsfarm wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:07 pmNot anymore it's not ... London's murder rate is now higher than New York!
Accusations of racism play into social taboo. As per any society, if you are accused of breaking social taboo, this can lead to social excommunication which has disastrous consequences for the individual and his/her status. Systemically, speech which is judged to be "racist" will surely also then be supposed to "incite racial hatred". Therefore when you claim someone's speech is "racist", you are likely suggesting (by implication) that it it should be liable for criminal prosecution (under "hate speech" laws).Kafkaesque wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:22 pmFollowed by
Freedom of speech is essential to a free country (and by implication I should be allowed to say what I want about Muslims). Calling you a racist; how dare people SPEAK such words about you. Do you seriously not see the hypocracy?
These are the reasons why it is correct to state that calling someone a "racist" suppresses free speech - it is invoking the power of social taboo, including a real (legal) procedural threat of social redress in our society beyond the fear of exclusion etc that accusations of heresy normally invoke.
What absolute insane and simplistic garbage. What about if you are a white male who's homeless in a white-majority country such as Romania, versus a non-white child who is born into a privileged position in any non-white majority country across this planet? Or if you are a white male in Algeria? And no, we did not "build this privileged position off the backs, suffering and death of pretty much every other ethnicity on the planet (and women)" - again that is painfully simplistic, nonsense guilt-mongering.I somewhat agree with sa7med's response in the very next post, but you did toss it in there at the end of a rant, so....as a white male you (we, as it were, to be clear) have a foot up on the vast majority of the world's population, before you start life's journey. Our ancestors built this priviliged position off the backs, suffering and death of pretty much every other ethnicity on the planet (and women). When this position is under siege, it must be someone else's fault and failings, surely.
By "white male", I think you actually mean "anglo-saxon" male or something like that. We have no reason to feel any more or less guilt than any other ethnic group regards our treatment of out-groups and relative assertion of our interests. In fact we should feel pride at having progressed beyond treating out-group members as slaves, which is the default for most other ethnic groups throughout history. And to claim that, relative to other ethnic groups and pretty much relative to any other civilisation throughout history, that women have endured particular suffering in our (white, anglo-saxon) society is just beyond insane. That's the direct opposite of the truth.
Religions (very well-organised, usually extremely successful, ideologies) necessarily identity out-groups. Central to Islam is the concept of 'Kuffar', which is that non-believers are "ungrateful". Muslims are educated to understand as all non-Muslims as such (i.e. "kuffar" - a clearly a derogatory reference).I don't have the solution; I just firmly believe two things.
First that we will not solve the issues at hand by making stoking the fire of us versus them, and creating hate speech on our side of things, as much as some of "them" do.
Why on earth - and moreover, how is it sensible that - we constantly refrain from 'stoking us versus them' when for instance Muslims (and it is common to all religions, not just Islam) refer to us in degrading terms *institutionally* and teach their children to do the same via these same institutions? How does that work?
No they have to change their practices first. They are moving to our society and we are integrating them (giving them equal access). Therefore they must change their religion so that they do not refer to members of the host society in derogatory terms. If they do not, then they should be (communally) referred to in derogatory terms by us. That is fair and proportionate.
How can we have absolutely no right to claim a moral high ground with regard any of our cultural practices within our own territory, this in comparison to the cultural practices of any new entrant ethnic group? How is that sustainable or practicable? Moreover, how is that even justifiable or correct, given that many of our practices just obviously have better outcomes (in comparison)? For example is our treatment of young females' anatomy as dictated by cultural practice, preferable to the cultural practice of FGM? Or do we have "zero right" to assert that our practice is better (morally superior).Secondly that we have absolutely zero right to claim a moral high ground, because we've developed certain principels within the last half a century or so, when we were at least as bad as anyone for much, much longer before then, and arguably still are.