Professional trader?

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wearthefoxhat
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IMO, a pro trader is someone that uses their time/resources to research. plan and execute their trades, be it manually or with automation. Essentially that's all they do, up to as many hours in the day as necessary to fulfil the role.

The quirk in taxation (or lack of it) in the UK, with regard to exchange traders/trading, makes it a worthwhile pursuit, if profitable.

If pro trading is all someone does, it might be worth creating a facade and register self employed, pay a class 2 national insurance (approx £25 a month) that covers future state pension rights. If your a big winner, employ an accountant to ensure all self assessment deadlines are met.

If you do it yourself, it's all done on-line through the HMRC portal on gov.uk.
foxwood
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Not difficult - Oxford dictionary ...
Engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur. eg ‘a professional boxer’
The only standard it implies is that there is enough money coming in from the occupation to live on.

So it doesn't mean they are competent, knowledgeable, rich, famous, intelligent or successful - only that they earn enough to scrape by on.

Caveat emptor when a "professional" tries to sell you something :D
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mjmorris335
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foxwood wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:07 am
Not difficult - Oxford dictionary ...
Engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur. eg ‘a professional boxer’
The only standard it implies is that there is enough money coming in from the occupation to live on.

So it doesn't mean they are competent, knowledgeable, rich, famous, intelligent or successful - only that they earn enough to scrape by on.

Caveat emptor when a "professional" tries to sell you something :D
I spent 35 years as professional musician and entertainer. The above quote works but there's something else to being a 'professional', IMV.

In music the difference between a pro and an amateur is not just about the money. Amateurs can earn the same as pros in certain circumstances.

The real difference is in attitude: an amateur will practice until he/she gets it right. A pro practices until he/she can't get it wrong.

Mike
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PDC
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Euler wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:13 pm
Lots of people claim to be one, but what actually would be your definition of a professional trader on Betfair?

I'd be interested in what you would define a 'professional' trader? What hurdles should you jump to say you are a 'professional'?
The short answer simply put, is I would define a 'professional trader' as a cock.

As soon as I hear anyone prefix their job with the word professional alarm bells go up, tbh it only seems to happen in trading. To me they come across as someone who is for whatever reason trying to put themselves above others, they aren't satisfied in their own ability deep down and or the level of recognition they receive for what they achieve. They are insecure and feel they need to try and put others down to boost their own feelings in what they do.

It seems to be something that has been created around trading on Betfair. I don't know one other person who feels a need to prefix what they do with the word professional. You don't hear people say they are a professional teacher, a professional doctor, a professional builder, professional butcher, professional taxi driver, professional porn star ;) If I did hear someone describe themselves that way I would simply think, you are a prized Tw@t, good bye.

The only area I would permit its use is in sport where there is a clear distinction between an amateur and professional e.g. in Horse Racing.

Otherwise. they are a builder, plumber or a part time taxi driver etc.

You need to tell whoever they are that they are just a trader or a part time trader and to get over themselves.
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jimibt
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PDC wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:07 am
... You need to tell whoever they are that they are just a trader or a part time trader and to get over themselves.
obviuosly tell them in a *professional* manner :D
spreadbetting
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I could never refer to myself as a "professional trader",apart from implying I knew what I was doing for the last 10 years or so it just sounds far too pompous.
Trader Pat
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I don't think 'professional trader' is that easy to define. My initial feeling was a professional trader is somebody who makes their living from trading but there are lots of people who work full time and make a decent second income from trading, some even who earn more through their trading than their full time job.

I suppose a professional trader for me would be someone who makes steady profits over time thats more than the average working income.
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Derek27
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I once told an old colleague that I hadn't seen for years that I'm now a semi-professional gambler. She looked at me with pity and said: "it's good that you at least recognise you have a gambling problem". :evil:
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ShaunWhite
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Our professional domestic hygene consultant is here today to do some hoovering. It's a baragin, only twice the price of our old 'cleaner'.

So Peter....you've heard what we all think....what's your view?
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Euler
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Well, it all started around the question of being a gambler or professional gambler.

Nobody I was with really felt tagging professional onto gambler would be legit, as most professionals where just "gamblers who got lucky".

Then we moved onto trading and I accepted that trading was a sophisticated form of gambling, but argued that there was probably a level at which people would be considered 'serious' or professional. The consensus seemed to mainly based on 'doing it for a living' which translated to earnings over time.

But of course, there is no Corgi certificate for trading! There is no way of telling if somebody really does actually do it.
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ShaunWhite
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Euler wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:02 pm
But of course, there is no Corgi certificate for trading! There is no way of telling if somebody really does actually do it.
Self certifying with 'pro' should be taken with the same pinch of salt as my old 'self-certified' mortage used to be :)

Let's not be too scathing about the 'gifted amateur' though. Not everyone wants to do what they've good at as a full-time job. For instance there's a lot of fantastic artists & musicians who don't want the lifestyle that goes with doing that fulltime. Ditto trading weekend warriors I suspect. When it comes to assessing traders as a source of learning (rather than giving them a mortage), then for me a talented amateur with great teaching methods would win hands down over an average pro who couldn't teach for toffee.

The best example I can think of would be a guitar teacher, do you want to learn from a professional guiarist or from a professional guitar teacher? Because they don't earn millions, are they inferior?
CallumPerry
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I think BetFair should release a leaderboard of every trader and gambler's username so when somebody says they're a pro you can see where they rank. Would make fights on this forum more fun too. "Rank 378: Fuck off 412, you'll understand when you get into the top 400 ;)" I jest of course, some ego's 100% don't need any more fuel ;) Although it's such a stupid idea I can see BetFair actually doing it in the New Year. My idea, mine!! Inbox me for details for where to send my royalties :mrgreen:
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Euler
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:07 pm
The best example I can think of would be a guitar teacher, do you want to learn from a professional guitarist or from a professional guitar teacher? Because they don't earn millions, are they inferior?
I'd probably be more than happy than learn guitar from a pro teacher. I don't really have any issue with professional teachers. My youngest are learning to drive so I've selected (at first) a professional teacher. Lewis Hamilton would probably be a terrible teacher but fantastic entertainment as he donuts in the driveway.
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Derek27
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:07 pm
The best example I can think of would be a guitar teacher, do you want to learn from a professional guiarist or from a professional guitar teacher? Because they don't earn millions, are they inferior?
Good point, but not many people would turn down lessons from their guitar idle, and the bragging rights that go with it. ;)
vankancisco
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I see a professional trader as someone who is involved with recognised financial markets. They will have at some point received proper training. I always prefer to call people involved in betting markets as gamblers. They can certainly be professional in a sense, but I don't regard it as a proper occupation. An occupation nearly always involves responsibility and accountability which in turn can lead to recognition and increased power. Someone involved in betting markets at the end of the day is hustling for money. There's many different ways of hustling but it leads to the same goal. That's not to do down gamblers, I just think it does differ from an occupation.
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