Placing of trade - Automation

Help improve Bet Angel.
Post Reply
PeterLe
Posts: 3715
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:19 pm

Morning,
Would it be possible to consider the following for a future build:

When placing a trade (esp with a gappy market), it is possible to set the parameter to do so at 2nd or 3rd best market price...
Would it be possible to also add the 2nd or 3rd best reverse market price...(or even better, if it could be x number of ticks above/below 2nd/3rd best reverse market price)

Eg consider market odds as follows

4.0 - 4.2 - 4.6 | 5.0 - 5.3 - 5.6

The ability to set a lay bet at odds of 4.2, or one tick above - 4.3 etc...or a back at 5.6, or one tick below at 5.5
Easy to do in Excel, but trying to build something entirely from Guardian automation.

Thanks in advance,
Regards
Peter
eightbo
Posts: 2154
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 8:19 pm
Location: Malta / Australia

I believe you're looking for Custom ticks above best market price for back bets and Custom ticks below best market price for lay bets:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
weemac
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:16 pm

No, he's wanting to use 2nd and 3rd best reverse prices. It's quite a good request, one that I'd find useful.
User avatar
Euler
Posts: 24702
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Custom ticks above or below can be used regardless of bet type, so that would allow you to do that.
eightbo
Posts: 2154
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 8:19 pm
Location: Malta / Australia

After a second look, I think he's looking to execute a command such as:
"Ignoring all the gaps, lay at 3rd reverse price plus one tick" and have it result in a lay at 2.10 in a market where the top 3 available back prices are: 2.22, 2.20, 2.08

Peter to confirm...
PeterLe
Posts: 3715
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:19 pm

eightbo wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:19 am
After a second look, I think he's looking to execute a command such as:
"Ignoring all the gaps, lay at 3rd reverse price plus one tick" and have it result in a lay at 2.10 in a market where the top 3 available back prices are: 2.22, 2.20, 2.08

Peter to confirm...
Yes that's correct
Euler wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:15 am
Custom ticks above or below can be used regardless of bet type, so that would allow you to do that.
I can see how you would do that if there were no gaps in the prices..

Lay 2.02, 2.04, 2.06 - 2.10, 2.12, 2.14 Back

But how would you say, lay 1 tick above the 2nd reverse price if the odds were :

Lay 2.02, 2.12, 2.20 - 2.26, 2.30, 2.40

ie lay at 2.14?
Thanks
Regards
Peter
weemac
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:16 pm

I suspect it'll be difficult to implement because BA would have to 'look' at the individual available prices, rather than the current x ticks above/below current prices method. If it could do that, it could also 'look' at current volumes to back/lay, which has also been requested.
PeterLe
Posts: 3715
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:19 pm

weemac wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:53 pm
I suspect it'll be difficult to implement..
No, i think it would be relatively easy to do
Jayden
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:55 am

Hi,

I'd also be very interested to be able to store the values of the second and third best back and lay prices for use in automation. These are available as parameters for bet placement, would it be possible to make them available for use as stored values?

The primary use case for this is to check for gaps - ie I would like to know the number of ticks between the first and second prices on either side and it doesn't seem like there's a way to do this. Let me know if I am mistaken.
User avatar
firlandsfarm
Posts: 2688
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:20 am

Would this not be easy to achieve by referencing the Price cells in Excel? But then I expect there would be a call for Automation and Excel to talk to each other … now that could be very handy! :)
User avatar
ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

firlandsfarm wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:21 am
Would this not be easy to achieve by referencing the Price cells in Excel? But then I expect there would be a call for Automation and Excel to talk to each other … now that could be very handy! :)
I don't use Guardian but isn't there something about passing stored values from Excel to Guardian in the latest version? Could it maybe just pass the values found in the price 1, 2 & 3 or something similar?
Wolf1877
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:59 am

ShaunWhite wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:25 pm
firlandsfarm wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:21 am
Would this not be easy to achieve by referencing the Price cells in Excel? But then I expect there would be a call for Automation and Excel to talk to each other … now that could be very handy! :)
I don't use Guardian but isn't there something about passing stored values from Excel to Guardian in the latest version? Could it maybe just pass the values found in the price 1, 2 & 3 or something similar?
Automation and Excel can now talk to each other since V1.54.0 and the preceeding beta.

Shared Stored Values can be set and cleared from excel via cells L6, L9, L11, L13 etc.
SET_SV FOR:SELECTION NAME:Test1 VALUE:42 NAME:Test2 Value:99 NAME:Test3 Value:200

Shared Stored Values also can be backloaded into excel via the optional extra columns settings in Bet Angel Settings for Excel.

New v1.54.0 features are documented here:
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=20081
Wolf1877
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:59 am

Jayden wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:26 am
Hi,

I'd also be very interested to be able to store the values of the second and third best back and lay prices for use in automation. These are available as parameters for bet placement, would it be possible to make them available for use as stored values?

The primary use case for this is to check for gaps - ie I would like to know the number of ticks between the first and second prices on either side and it doesn't seem like there's a way to do this. Let me know if I am mistaken.
I agree that it is not particularly easy to do this directly within Bet Angel Automation without the ability to assign 2nd best and 3rd best prices into Stored Values. It is kind of possible as you can store the funds available to back at the best back price minus x ticks and zero would indicate a gap but its not easily going to tell you if there is say an 8 tick gap.

As Shaun has suggested you can now get Bet Angel via Guardian>Excel and Excel>Guardian to interact with each other however it does add an extra layer of overhead that you might not want.

Bet Angel Automation possibilities has come on leaps and bounds over recent versions but with this continuous improvement there are always a few inconsistencies that creep in such as being able to assign the money available on the 2nd and 3rd best prices into stored values but no option to assign the actual 2nd and 3rd best prices themseleves into stored values. The logical extension is an option to allow 2nd and 3rd or even the n-th best price to be assigned into Stored Values in a future version. I think it would also be great if the n-th best back/lay price "tick number" could also be assigned into a Stored Value where "tick number" ranges from 1 to 350 for the 350 discreet odds values available in Betfair where "tick number" 1 would correspond to 1.01 and "tick number" 350 would correspond to 1000. Then it would be a very simple calculation to calculate price tick gaps by simple subtraction.
User avatar
ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Wolf1877 wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:37 pm
Jayden wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:26 am
Hi,

I'd also be very interested to be able to store the values of the second and third best back and lay prices for use in automation. These are available as parameters for bet placement, would it be possible to make them available for use as stored values?

The primary use case for this is to check for gaps - ie I would like to know the number of ticks between the first and second prices on either side and it doesn't seem like there's a way to do this. Let me know if I am mistaken.
I agree that it is not particularly easy to do this directly within Bet Angel Automation without the ability to assign 2nd best and 3rd best prices into Stored Values. It is kind of possible as you can store the funds available to back at the best back price minus x ticks and zero would indicate a gap but its not easily going to tell you if there is say an 8 tick gap.

As Shaun has suggested you can now get Bet Angel via Guardian>Excel and Excel>Guardian to interact with each other however it does add an extra layer of overhead that you might not want.

Bet Angel Automation possibilities has come on leaps and bounds over recent versions but with this continuous improvement there are always a few inconsistencies that creep in such as being able to assign the money available on the 2nd and 3rd best prices into stored values but no option to assign the actual 2nd and 3rd best prices themseleves into stored values. The logical extension is an option to allow 2nd and 3rd or even the n-th best price to be assigned into Stored Values in a future version. I think it would also be great if the n-th best back/lay price "tick number" could also be assigned into a Stored Value where "tick number" ranges from 1 to 350 for the 350 discreet odds values available in Betfair where "tick number" 1 would correspond to 1.01 and "tick number" 350 would correspond to 1000. Then it would be a very simple calculation to calculate price tick gaps by simple subtraction.
Can't deny it could be easier but you could always use Excel to send an SV containing the gap aswell, it's easier to work it out in Excel than it is in Guardian. The other thing is that if you do it in Excel (and you can) you'll be one of a few to have it, do it in BA and everyone can. An edge is an edge.

Re the nth price. Nice idea but that would have massive performance issues. The way the api market subscriptions work would mean you'd have to request the full ladder rather than just the best 3 prices each side, that's potentially 50x more information per market change message, on all runners everywhere whether you were using that information or not. And all for the hope that the 20th best price might actually be of some use. Bet Angel already has to conflate the millisecond data into 20ms refreshes so I wouldn't think there's much room for handling that much more data easily.
Wolf1877
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:59 am

ShaunWhite wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:39 am
Can't deny it could be easier but you could always use Excel to send an SV containing the gap aswell, it's easier to work it out in Excel than it is in Guardian. The other thing is that if you do it in Excel (and you can) you'll be one of a few to have it, do it in BA and everyone can. An edge is an edge.
I'm not looking for the ability to calculate these gaps for myself. Some BA users seem comfortable with the jump from manual to using Automation Files, some with Excel, some with both and some with custom API code. IMO anything complex is easier to code and faster performing in excel VBA than in Automation Files (.... and easier/faster still in c#/.net processes). There is however an overhead from even having a connected excel instance that could slow down very simple automation.
ShaunWhite wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:39 am
Re the nth price. Nice idea but that would have massive performance issues. The way the api market subscriptions work would mean you'd have to request the full ladder rather than just the best 3 prices each side, that's potentially 50x more information per market change message, on all runners everywhere whether you were using that information or not. And all for the hope that the 20th best price might actually be of some use. Bet Angel already has to conflate the millisecond data into 20ms refreshes so I wouldn't think there's much room for handling that much more data easily.
I defer to your greater knowledge on the options within the API. I dont know exactly what Bet Angel software is doing under the hood to interface to the API but my perception is that the BA software is probably developed in .net/c# and probably retains in memory lists of ladder price data for each guardian connected market and maybe some of the outlier prices dont get refreshed at maximum refresh to ease the API load. Automation already offers the facility to access outlier price data - for example if the current price is 3.2 it is perfectly possible to assign the available funds at 95 into a Stored Value even if its likely to be pretty useless data. If my perception of how BA probably works under the hood is correct then no additional API calls would be needed to pull back data to evaluate the nth best price and it would just be a bit of looping code in c# to wizz through the in memory ladder data for a selection when required.
Post Reply

Return to “Suggestions”