Position in Queue and Last Trade

Help improve Bet Angel.
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jimibt
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PDC wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:48 am
I would like to add my wish to see PIQ included in the software.

I know it is used in other software and people in this thread have expressed views that it is a gimmick but useless as a trading tool etc but I would strongly disagree with this view point whilst also agreeing with it.

I think PIQ has a place as long as you are aware of the short comings of it, therefore I would like to see it added as an option with an explanation about the shortcomings. Then those that do see a value to it can use it and those that don't see any value to it don't have to use it.

I actually find it quite reliable in horse racing markets in other software which has it. Though their implementation of it is good it could do with some improvement.

Euler raised a few points earlier in the thread:
Euler wrote:
Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:13 am
Cancellation of orders. You can cancel an order and there is no way of working out that this happened.
This is true but is less of an issue I find in most horse racing markets than you might think. Also when you submit £200 to £800 already there making £1,000, you PIQ would be £800 but if £200 is cancelled meaning now only £800 is in the queue your PIQ should change to £600. The other software does not do this and keeps your PIQ at £800 which is clearly wrong.
Euler wrote:
Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:13 am
Scratched orders. If you scratch a trade, I scratch a lot, then matched bet volume remains unchanged but the queue position changes.
That is incorrect, if you scratch a trade the volume increases as long as you don't match against your own trade and if you were doing that you would know you were at the front of the queue any way so wouldn't be needing PIQ to know you were at the front.
Euler wrote:
Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:13 am
Then the elephant in the room cross matching. Especially on small markets like football you have no idea which one of three (in the match odds market) is getting matched and where that sits in the queue, so it becomes impossible to work out where you order on your selection is on the queue across all three selections. Almost impossible.
This point is valid but in horse racing markets I really don't find this to be much of an issue.

I can see issues in markets where there is a lot of money at a price but in the majority of horse racing markets this is not the case and as I submit several orders at several prices at varying times it is impossible as was mentioned earlier in the thread to make a note of how much money was already there and keep track of it. But PIQ lets me have a pretty good educated 'guess' as to what my PIQ is.

Markets like Cheltenham I find it invaluable, if there is £20,000 at a price and I put in my order I can look away at another runner and come back and see what the PIQ is saying my position is, if it is now saying £3,000 but there is still £20,000 at the price I know I am getting to the front of the queue but without PIQ and not noting down the amount traded when I submitted my order I could be fooled into thinking I am still at the back of the £20,000 as it looks like nothing has changed. I might be at £5,000 but I would sooner have PIQ giving me a rough idea than being fooled into thinking that I am still no way near being matched with £20,000 in front of me still.

I would like to see it added as an option and to be displayed over the traded amount value at the price your order was submitted. I don't see a need for a stand alone column that will hold little or no information. E.g. If £1,200 has been traded at 2.02 and you add £10 to the back of a £30 queue the £1,200 is replaced with £30 and then reverts to £1,260 once you start getting matched.

This feature has a +1 from me.
+1 - very nicely elaborated!
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Geordie
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Location: North East

Well put PDC, and a +1 from me.
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wearthefoxhat
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My previous post about a request to add PIQ to Betangel was posted in the wrong thread, so I thought I'd embellish in the right one. :)


PIQex.PNG

As already mentioned by PDC that it's not an exact figure in the ladder and may have short comings, he rightly points out as long as there's an awareness of this, then it would be a good introduction. (as long as it doesn't mess up Bet Angels' functionality along the way)

If implemented, it could be used as guide and as a measurement of how fast/slow the order flow is on less volatile markets. It could offer an edge for any trader that wants to add/takeway or even automate the PIQ as some form of trigger.

Observing your PIQ helps you know how close your bets are to being matched. This is extremely useful information when you are trading, which can involve constantly trying to judge whether to cancel an unmatched bet or leave it to get matched, based on whether it has a favourable queue position and whether the weight of money in the market is likely to help to support your position if your bet gets matched.
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weemac
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I use PIQ by default using other software and apart from the known effects of cross-matching, I have absolutely no issues with its reliability or information value. A solid 95%+ of the time when I expect to start getting matched, I start getting matched.
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Derek27
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Location: UK

PDC wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:48 am
As suggested by another user in the release notes thread for the latest version I would like to add my wish to see PIQ included in the software.

I know it is used in other software and people in this thread have expressed views that it is a gimmick but useless as a trading tool etc but I would strongly disagree with this view point whilst also agreeing with it.

I think PIQ has a place as long as you are aware of the short comings of it, therefore I would like to see it added as an option with an explanation about the shortcomings. Then those that do see a value to it can use it and those that don't see any value to it don't have to use it.

I actually find it quite reliable in horse racing markets in other software which has it. Though their implementation of it is good it could do with some improvement.
+1

It can be very accurate in horse racing markets that aren't so affected by cross-matching.
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aperson
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+1 to this feature from me
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Scamp
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Joined: Mon May 15, 2017 1:12 pm

+1
Bet Angel
Bet Angel
Bet Angel
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See beta v1.51.1 in the Announcements section for a build that contains Estimated Position In Queue
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Euler
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Location: Bet Angel HQ

ICYMI this has been added to the latest version.
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LeTiss
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I'll be interested to see how accurate it is mate. I'm assuming you've trailed it and are happy with the results. I'm struggling to see how you can know when somebody in front of you has withdrawn their money, or how the dreaded XM affects the fill rate
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Euler
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We looked at how others had implemented it and have done our best to improve that by covering all angles and then some. As previously discussed there are still issues with the way this sort of thing works. But we did it anyhow as it seemed a popular request.
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Derek27
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LeTiss wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:07 pm
I'll be interested to see how accurate it is mate. I'm assuming you've trailed it and are happy with the results. I'm struggling to see how you can know when somebody in front of you has withdrawn their money, or how the dreaded XM affects the fill rate
I don't think there's any way of knowing whether cancelled bets are ahead or behind you in the queue. I guess the algorithm could take a conservative view that it's behind, or a probability view depending on how far up the queue you are.
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BetScalper
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I think its very useful as is as a general guide. For my purposes I don't want to be joining the existing queue if there is say >= £3K sitting there on one side or the other. In such a case I am more likely to want to jump in front, depending on how much is sitting on the other side and vice versa etc.

Ofcourse, if the mad bomber or Peter is about then it doesn't really matter what side you are on. If your on the opposite side then more than likely your going to get run over by a steam roller and need to leg it to the toilet asap. :lol:
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wearthefoxhat
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Euler wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:13 pm
We looked at how others had implemented it and have done our best to improve that by covering all angles and then some. As previously discussed there are still issues with the way this sort of thing works. But we did it anyhow as it seemed a popular request.
Will it be available in the next version?

Well done for making the effort to add this in.
Bet Angel
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wearthefoxhat wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:44 pm

Will it be available in the next version
Yes it’s in the v1.51.1 beta that was released today
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