Black Caviar

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mugsgame
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If Frankels' rating is 147 that means the Queen Anne was the best race of all time. Ever. In history.

Like I was saying earlier the gap between sprinters at G1 and handicaps isn't very big.
How many middle distance handicappers progress to G1? Not many. The ones I can remember are Halling and Pilsudski, Which are 2 of the best horses of the last 25 years.

I heard the BC team are leaving her here for a winter campaign on the AW at Wolverhampton.

My highlight of the week was watching the Queens face as her horse won the Queens Vase. never seen her smile like that
blueport
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Unconvincing but she did what she went over there to do.

Unfortunately Luke Nolen will never live the ride down.

Where did the pommy sprinters finish?
PeterLe
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mugsgame wrote:
My highlight of the week was watching the Queens face as her horse won the Queens Vase. never seen her smile like that
Maybe she didn't want to lose her Vase! :D
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LeTiss
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I made £20 trading, but placed the whole profit on Black Cavier to lose

I layed her for £95 at 1.21, thinking she wouldn't like the 12,000 mile journey. I was wrong, yet nearly right :)
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mugsgame
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blueport wrote:Unconvincing but she did what she went over there to do.

Unfortunately Luke Nolen will never live the ride down.

Where did the pommy sprinters finish?
Read my other posts. Sprinting is the poor relation of through bred racing. Have a look at the stud rates for sprinters. Then have a look at the Coolmore middle distance sires. You can send your mare to a top sprinter for £17. The top sires in middle distances are 50k a pop.

Truth is we don't take distances less than a mile seriously. The Aussies like 'em because they are quick to run so you can get back in the bar :mrgreen:
rubysglory
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10,500 miles, a soft track, strange course and second gear to the finish line - great job Nellie, you are truly a champion (although I suspect that Luke Nolen will have nightmares for a month!). No doubting Frankel's dominance, shame his owners are scared to travel to prove he's better than the average English hack! :lol:

rg
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mugsgame
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Frankel isn't in question. He has got nothing to prove.

Anyway, which top race is he going to travel to win?

The Melbourne donkey derby over 2 miles odd?

The Dubai WC is wrong distance, as is the Arc. There are no races in the Southern hemisphere worth winning. Maybe he will go to the Breeders Cup. The Aussies have to come here 'cos this is where the proper races are run. Take the Derby for instance. There is only ONE Derby. Yet in OPz there is a Derby (and Guineas) every week FFS.

Just to add weight to my Sprinters argument about the gap between handicappers and G1's. The Wokingham time was quicker than BC's time over the same distance. Give it up fellas and get yourselves to bed. :D
rubysglory
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Pip pip ! :)

rg
blueport
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Has Frankel ever been around a bend?

The only races I've seen of him have been straight track.

The Cox Plate is 2000m at WFA for around $3,000,000.

Would that be suitable?
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mugsgame
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The prize money isn't the issue is it? It's about prestige and future stud value. Have a look back at previous winners and tell me what Champions these horses have sired to improve the breed. So You Think is the only decent winner, and he isn't top level.

We all know the Aussie racing bodies syphon money from the mug punters who bet with the monopoly. Just see what they did to betfair (unfairly) That's why the prize money is so generous.

regarding Frankel running around a bend. Thats scrapping the barrel. Don't you have straight mile race courses? Or are they all dog tracks like in the States? He isn't avoiding turning tracks, most G1 tracks have a proper mile.

The experts say he's the greatest, Just admit it :D
I thought Aussies were good sports.

Stop Press:
Peter Moody is saying Frankel is the best horse he has ever seen and that BC may be injured.

Twitter is alive with excuses. Most from Racing Victoria
She's injured
She has run 5 seconds faster than the ascot track record. (Why do each track have a track record? Maybe because they are all different? Doh!
She's tired
etc etc

Getting bored now, my new sport of Aussie bating is wearing off :mrgreen:
blueport
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The facts are she travelled half way around the world and won!

The negativity surrounding her win is disappointing.

Champions in all sports have off days and there is no doubt that was not her best.

Frankel is the best straight track miler in the UK!
Galilee66
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I thought Nolen's ride was poorly judged. I would not be surprised that if that had happened in Autralia the stewards would have at least reprimanded him for not riding his mount out to the line - and possibly fined him! I know that Andy Fuller has lived in Australia and I would value his opinion of what we saw in the Diamond Jubilee.
I don't know whether you have a similar rule in the UK.
Perhaps Mugsgame has spent time in Australia as well, as I assume his observations on the quality of Asutralian racing is based on empirical evidence.

Nolen stated in the post race interview that he had had a "brain fade" and it certailny appeared to be at least that! It's a pity that the controversy over his ride has coloured the mare's performance.

Galilee66
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JollyGreen
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Galilee66

We have rules in the UK whereby a jockey would be punished for failing to obtain the best finishing position for the horse. However, they would not be brought to bear unless the jockey lost a winning or place position as a result of dropping their hands a la Nolen yesterday.

HTH

JG
grigsy
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There's no doubt that Black Caviar had the race in the bag with something to spare but Nolen misread it and only just got out of jail. According to him he misjudged how quickly the horse would pull up on the heavy track. Personally, I think because he was on barrier 15 he just didn't expect anyone to be coming up outside him, and he got the fright of his life in final 50. Luckily he'd just done enough.
I think if Nolen would have kept the afterburners on, Black Caviar would have won by a couple of lengths at least and everyone would be purring over how easily she did it over a quality field. As it was, his mistake means people suddenly doubt her.
I just wish we got to see just what Black Caviar was capable of, like Frankel whose race, for me, bore all the hallmarks of Shergar in the Derby 30 odd years ago. They've always been determined to do 'just enough' with Black Caviar, so we've seen a procession of 2-3 length, cantering wins. I'd really love to have seen them just let her go. Yesterday was the perfect opportunity. Then again, what do I know? I'm speaking purely as a fan.
The sadness, for me, is that she's a 6 year old now, so it's unlikely she's going to improve, and there won't be another Ascot, so all people are going to remember is just how close Nolen came to blowing an entire legacy.
Still, I'm extraordinarily proud of her and I still say she's as good as anything we've ever seen. And her record backs it up.
Just imagine if Frankel and Black Caviar both retire, how much for their offspring?
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mugsgame
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Galilee66 wrote:I thought Nolen's ride was poorly judged. I would not be surprised that if that had happened in Autralia the stewards would have at least reprimanded him for not riding his mount out to the line - and possibly fined him! I know that Andy Fuller has lived in Australia and I would value his opinion of what we saw in the Diamond Jubilee.
I don't know whether you have a similar rule in the UK.
Perhaps Mugsgame has spent time in Australia as well, as I assume his observations on the quality of Asutralian racing is based on empirical evidence.

Nolen stated in the post race interview that he had had a "brain fade" and it certailny appeared to be at least that! It's a pity that the controversy over his ride has coloured the mare's performance.

Galilee66
My brother lives in Melbourne, been there many times & for the record I think Aus is a fantastic country. I like to have a bit of banter with the Aussies as they are usually like the craic :D

My observations of Australian racing are based on the fact that the Aussies think it's better than it is. Which is backed up by how many of the top Australian horses are not capable of winning the worlds top races. i.e Breeders Cup & proper G1's in Europe.
The top Aussie middle distance horse of recent times is.......
So You Think. How was sired by........Galileo. Point made.

Not being at all negative about BC, a definite super star, was great to see the Aussies win something in the UK. I bet you can't remember the last time you had the Ashes. :D
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