Faults with Bookmakng / Dutching tabs

[6thSense]

I am looking a a market now. The lay price of the favourite is 2.5 and I want to lay this horse so that even if it wins the race, I would only lose 100. If I lay with a stake of 100, as you suggest, and the horse wins the race, I would lose 150. Not 100.

To do this don't use bookmaking for a single runner. Use the Auto Stake method and set to 'Liability'. Set the value to £100. Bet Angel will then automatically calculate and place the lay stake required to risk only that amount when using the one click or ladder interfaces.

If you want to do this on two or more runners then use bookmaking. But as you say there is no overall 'total liability' setting in bookmaking as it presumes you will be using it for more than one runner.

[flanna]

If you want to do this on two or more runners then use bookmaking. But as you say there is no overall 'total liability' setting in bookmaking as it presumes you will be using it for more than one runner.

No. This does not work. Even on a market where I want to lay 2 runners (e.g. 4.3 and 4.5) My stake of 100 would result in a loss of 120 if either horse wins the race.

I want to lay 2 or more horses with a fixed liability. So, I can set the liability to 100 spread over various horses and if any of them wins the race I would lose 100. It is simple maths to do this so it should be very easy to do it from the BA Bookmaking tab. Unfortunately, I don't think BA can do it

[demmas]

I need to do to force using an external sheet, but I understand that for a horse race, then a fast-paced market, perhaps the procedure takes too long, but there is no solution.

[gazuty]

Not true...

I am looking at a market now. The lay price of the favourite is 2.5 and I want to lay this horse so that even if it wins the race, I would only lose 100. If I lay with a stake of 100, as you suggest, and the horse wins the race, I would lose 150. Not 100.

The first staking option should be to Lay with a pre calculated liability.

The second staking option "Lay with a target profit of..." doesn't work at all! But if it did work this should be the calculation that is used for the first staking option.

When you do that, you are not bookmaking. You are not using the tab as intended. The tab functions correctly, you probably need to do more reading about bookmaking and the concept of overround.

In fact, from what you describe you need to think more broadly. If you are laying one horse you are of course synthetically backing all the others. Go into the dutching tab, click the field and then un mark the horse you want to lay for $100. Back the rest of the field for a stake of $100 and you are in business.

[convoysur-2]

im not saying anyone dont know what they are doing..BUT for anyone starting out new using bookmaking or dutching tabs i suggest that you start in a simple market like over and under 3.5 goals ,this is the easiest way to grasp it,kiddie steps theres nothing wrong with wee steps

Marc

[JollyGreen]

No point!

[flanna]

Ahh! So now I see what to do. If I want to lay all the horses priced, say, 10.0 or less... Instead of making a book of these horses on the Bookmaker tab, I should back all the horses priced over 10.0 on the Dutching tab.
The Bookmaking tab still remains a mystery though. If it should only be used for making a "Book" of all the horses, then why is it possible to de-select all or any of the horses? Also, why does the Staking Method "lay for a target profit of..." option never put money on the selections?
Something is definitely wrong with the Bookmaking tab

[convoysur-2]

i think we have reached wind up stage here ,,,

[gazuty]

The Bookmaking tab still remains a mystery though. If it should only be used for making a "Book" of all the horses, then why is it possible to de-select all or any of the horses? Also, why does the Staking Method "lay for a target profit of..." option never put money on the selections?
Something is definitely wrong with the Bookmaking tab

Please don't allege there is something wrong with a particular function when you do not know how to use that function in the manner intended.

Ask (politely) and you shall receive, criticise (rudely) and I will get mugs to respond with his thoughts uncensored.

[flanna]

Please don't allege there is something wrong with a particular function when you do not know how to use that function in the manner intended.

Ask (politely) and you shall receive, criticise (rudely) and I will get mugs to respond with his thoughts uncensored.

Polite question:
I have just tried to make a Book from the Bookmaker tab by selecting all the horses to Lay and then set the Staking method to "Lay for a target profit of... 30". Why is the amount to bet on each horse 0.00?
If I choose either of the other two staking methods then varying amounts will be bet on each horse.
I have also tried this with some of the horses de-selected (same results).

Polite comment:
I'm not going to suggest that there is anything wrong
with this BA tab. Perhaps this is intentional and there is a good reason why people should not "Lay for a target profit of..." in horse racing markets.

Another polite question:
Could someone please explain how I can use the staking method "Lay for target profit of..."? I just can't get it to work.

[gazuty]

Works fine for me.

When you are attempting to set these books up and you are looking at a profit target of say $20 have you ensured that you have got the book over 100% and there is an overround present?

What I suggest you do is google some articles on the art of bookmaking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematics_of_bookmaking

http://betting.betfair.com/the-art-of-bookmaking.html

[demmas]

You must select all of the rows, is practically a LAY THE FIELD. I hope not to say inaccurate things.

[gazuty]

You must select all of the rows, is practically a LAY THE FIELD. I hope not to say inaccurate things.

Not exactly. You need the book to be over 100%, so you may be able to leave out the occasional long shot (aka a "skinner").

But generally you will need all the runners.

[to75ne]

y flanna » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:27 am

Polite question:
I have just tried to make a Book from the Bookmaker tab by selecting all the horses to Lay and then set the Staking method to "Lay for a target profit of... 30". Why is the amount to bet on each horse 0.00?
If I choose either of the other two staking methods then varying amounts will be bet on each horse.
I have also tried this with some of the horses de-selected (same results).



cause your offering to lay all runners at prices that
add up to less than 100%. by asking ba to lay for a target profit of £30 it is not possible at the prices you are offering; it is saying to you THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE -hence individual stakes are 0.00 and total stake is 0.00

below is a screen shot for ascot 13:15 laying for a profit of £30 at the current lay odds available - as you can see at those odds you would be laying into a 99% book - cant be done by using the current lay odds they are under %100. you need to adjust your book so that you are offering prices that add up to a book of over 100%.

[to75ne]

if you was to adjust the first 3 each 1 tick lower you would achieve a overround of 100.4%. ba would then be able to offer up your book.

fav 2.3 adjust to 2.28
2nd 3.15 to 3.1
3rd 4.3 to 4.2
4th stays at 200

but you would need stakes of 3 grand plus, 2 grand plus, 1500 plus and £35 respectively - total stake of over 7 grand - not really worth the risk.

you would be better off to stake to a more realistic liability, and after "each" book is matched so to speak, churn it over, and hope that no shorties get withdrawn.