Discipline

Trading is often about how to take the appropriate risk without exposing yourself to very human flaws.
User avatar
ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

As well as the settled amount drawdown the temporary exposure can sometimes be a factor, especially if you're automating both the win and place markets and there's an overlap due to delayed races. You might just find yourself with a dozen open positions and although each might only win or lose a few pounds, you might have a buttock tightening exposure for a few mins if they all happen to be one one side of the book. Depending on your attitude to risk due to outages, you might find that uncomfortable. I guess that's all more applicable to staking rather than drawdowns but it's all part of working out if a particular strategy is doable and the risk you want to take to try it.
trader44
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:28 pm

" I think the only thing you can do is take yourself out of the situation after any losses that might trigger your chasing then come back when you've calmed down. Missing a few races isn't a big deal and you may find those 'time outs' start getting shorter each time."
Great advice spreadbetting .if you dont have the mouse in your hand you cant overstake and a little break/walk gives you space to reflect
trader44
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 1:28 pm

" Speaking of holidays, all that mophine was a response to a mini heart attack." hope your on the mend shaun :D
iambic_pentameter
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 1:24 pm

Shaun,

I'd missed bit earlier in the thread were you mentioned your current health scare.

Hope you are resting up and look after yourself.

Best wishes

Iambic
User avatar
ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Cheers guys, yep I'm firing on all cylinders again. Almost like it hasn't happened. The more I think about it the more I've got my doubts that's what it was. I had something called pericarditis donkeys years ago and it felt exactly the same, like being crushed and suddendy no blood pressure (inflamed heart muscle, agony but not dangerous). Its quite rare especially that painful so the ambulance guys said heart attack, hospital trace saw nothing special. Worst part was waiting 50mins for an ambulance (although 1st repsonders where here in 20) and then a one hour drive to the hospital via diversions and pea soup fog. I was either going to be better, or dead. As it was I just arrived nicely toasted on A-grade pharmaceuticals 8-)

Anyways, that's all tmi but thanks for the concern. The BA family isn't bad bunch as workmates go. ;)
stueytrader
Posts: 863
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:47 pm

ShaunWhite wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 4:43 pm
Cheers guys, yep I'm firing on all cylinders again. Almost like it hasn't happened. The more I think about it the more I've got my doubts that's what it was. I had something called pericarditis donkeys years ago and it felt exactly the same, like being crushed and suddendy no blood pressure (inflamed heart muscle, agony but not dangerous). Its quite rare especially that painful so the ambulance guys said heart attack, hospital trace saw nothing special. Worst part was waiting 50mins for an ambulance (although 1st repsonders where here in 20) and then a one hour drive to the hospital via diversions and pea soup fog. I was either going to be better, or dead. As it was I just arrived nicely toasted on A-grade pharmaceuticals 8-)

Anyways, that's all tmi but thanks for the concern. The BA family isn't bad bunch as workmates go. ;)
All the best Shaun - I think your own recent situation also helps put trading 'discipline' somewhat into perspective. 8-)

I've been someone who could have benefited from perspective to help my discipline a few times over the years. Trading stress is worth considering in this area as a related issue, as I think discipline and stress are complementary issues for us traders.
User avatar
brimson25
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:42 am

Second all good wishes for Shaun. Get well.
eightbo
Posts: 2154
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 8:19 pm
Location: Malta / Australia

stueytrader wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:00 pm
I've been someone who could have benefited from perspective to help my discipline a few times over the years. Trading stress is worth considering in this area as a related issue, as I think discipline and stress are complementary issues for us traders.
Reducing stress is huge.

I've recently begun to frame each day around the idea of having a stress-free day first with profit becoming secondary. Often I'm not making as much as I could be but at the end of each day, my mood is consistently "normal", as opposed to commonly finishing on a high or a low which feels much more sustainable and conducive to long-term success. Generally, this is all reflected by less volatility in the P&L.

For myself, pushing the risk tolerance is my main source of stress so taking smaller positions also makes the discipline "easier" (for lack of a better word). Also, trading fewer markets provides extra breathing room to allow any stress which has built up more time to alleviate.

I encourage others struggling with discipline to start utilising stress as an indicator. One that will lead you to areas of your trading which may be beneficial for you to adjust. Start journalling instances where you feel stress if you're not already and seek to eradicate severe cases.
The concept being that by reducing our stress levels, we're putting ourselves in a position to make higher quality decisions when trading.

I'd add that some stress is healthy and is a part of growth so the goal shouldn't be to eradicate it completely but rather to find and remove unjustified instances / excess amounts.
User avatar
ShaunWhite
Posts: 9731
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

eightbo wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:52 pm
Reducing stress is huge.
The reason I prefer automation over doing hours and hours at the ladder is the reduced stress, and discipline is also never an issue.

Trading manually 8 hrs a day required me to become someone I'm not, so instead of changing me, I found it much easier to change how I worked. I'm not saying automation is easy, I still do 8 hrs a day and often more, but it's when I want and it's a different kind of stress that doesn't require snap decisions that impact on your bottom line.
User avatar
Derek27
Posts: 23468
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

eightbo wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:52 pm
I'd add that some stress is healthy and is a part of growth so the goal shouldn't be to eradicate it completely but rather to find and remove unjustified instances / excess amounts.
I'd agree with that, a stress-free life must be a pretty boring life. :)

Stress is technically a mental health problem but everybody endures stress to varying degrees and it only becomes a problem when it reaches a level that impacts on your daily life. Trading is pretty stressful, working in an A&E department substantially more so I'd imagine, but I think we're fairly lucky to have the flexibility that most people in stressful jobs wouldn't.

Not sure if I could cope with the stress of getting up at 8am every day, but I never did regularly get to work on time. :)
stueytrader
Posts: 863
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:47 pm

eightbo wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:52 pm
stueytrader wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:00 pm
I've been someone who could have benefited from perspective to help my discipline a few times over the years. Trading stress is worth considering in this area as a related issue, as I think discipline and stress are complementary issues for us traders.
Reducing stress is huge.

I've recently begun to frame each day around the idea of having a stress-free day first with profit becoming secondary. Often I'm not making as much as I could be but at the end of each day, my mood is consistently "normal", as opposed to commonly finishing on a high or a low which feels much more sustainable and conducive to long-term success. Generally, this is all reflected by less volatility in the P&L.

For myself, pushing the risk tolerance is my main source of stress so taking smaller positions also makes the discipline "easier" (for lack of a better word). Also, trading fewer markets provides extra breathing room to allow any stress which has built up more time to alleviate.

I encourage others struggling with discipline to start utilising stress as an indicator. One that will lead you to areas of your trading which may be beneficial for you to adjust. Start journalling instances where you feel stress if you're not already and seek to eradicate severe cases.
The concept being that by reducing our stress levels, we're putting ourselves in a position to make higher quality decisions when trading.

I'd add that some stress is healthy and is a part of growth so the goal shouldn't be to eradicate it completely but rather to find and remove unjustified instances / excess amounts.
Great post - said what I've been thinking for a while about stress and discipline, but better expressed than I'd managed to formulate!
I totally agree that pushing the stress boundaries is often closely related to discipline, tilt etc. In the past, I've pushed myself way too much in terms of stress and ended up out of control. I still have elements of that, for sure, though not as bad as in my past. It's a great area to keep working on in self development.
soccersaint
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:10 pm

Someone quoted discipline being 90% of a traders successs...ummm...I think not...it’s important but not that important.

Anyway, there’s some good advice in the thread for anyone struggling to balance their emotions and trading.

I tend to feel keeping it simple is the best way forward. I mean look at what is causing the emotion of stress, unhealthy stress is a WARNING indicator right. Identify what it’s warning you about:

Money - warning of over risk and trading too big
Trade Selection - warning of a poor trade that doesn’t fit your strategy
Etc Etc
Look at the stress indicator as your friend not foe, it is often in those moments of stress that our greatest insights and learnings occur.

If we don’t learn and it gets out of control it can then turn to anger...
If that does happen when you are feeling angry in that moment...try to stop and ask why ? Identify the why and you are one step closer to eliminating the stress !

Many accounts are blown through chasing and revenge trading which is always anger based or motivated by Fear of Loss .....Ding Ding !

There has been a lot written about the psychology of trading so I think we should all be a lot wiser by now about our own individual characters.
Finding out what’s pushing those buttons is the first place to start,

Good Luck and remember to Keep It Simple 8-)
Post Reply

Return to “Trading Psychology”