Frustrating automation.

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Bigd85
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:37 pm

Hi everyone.

I have been trading with ba for a month or so now and am enjoying it in the evening when I am not at work and have been quite good with football matches (although small returns) but seem to have issues with automation especially horse racing.

I’d love to be able to develop something to run whilst I’m at work during the day as I am unable to do any trading at work.

I have downloaded and toyed around with a few automations. But can’t seem to find anything that works for me.

Ideally I want to build a system that I can run whilst I am at work that will in an ideal world return me a small profit without coming home to an empty account balance.

Have anyone managed to develop anything that works consistently that can run in the background and not cause a headache?

Just wanted to see if it is actually do-able or whether I stick to doing hands on trading as and when I can?

I’m just purely looking for a bit of feedback from fellow automationists (if that is a word).

Cheers

Dan
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Dallas
Posts: 22674
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:57 pm
Location: Working From Home

Plenty of us do (but it does take hard work), some like Peterle are purely automated traders, he's posted some screenshots of his P/L's on the following page, and also several more over the following pages of the thread with plenty of advice and pointers along the way
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9074&start=220
Bigd85
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:37 pm

Dallas wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:34 pm
Plenty of us do (but it does take hard work), some like Peterle are purely automated traders, he's posted some screenshots of his P/L's on the following page, and also several more over the following pages of the thread with plenty of advice and pointers along the way
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9074&start=220
Many thanks Dallas

I’ll make sure you go through it all and see if there any any tips along the way. Appreciate all your help.
awhit66
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:42 pm

Dallas wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:34 pm
Plenty of us do (but it does take hard work), some like Peterle are purely automated traders, he's posted some screenshots of his P/L's on the following page, and also several more over the following pages of the thread with plenty of advice and pointers along the way
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9074&start=220
Dallas

What was the automation for this?

Andy
spreadbetting
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm

awhit66 wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:18 am


Dallas

What was the automation for this?

Andy

I think PeterLe uses his own bespoke software but at the end of the day it all comes down to your strategy and no one is going to give that away on a public forum, you may as well ask them to deposit into your account each month.

Plenty of us make decent incomes from automated strategies using off the shelf software like BA so you certainly don't need a computer degree to go automated but you'll still be in for a slog to find what works. There's plenty of advice these days on the forum and I certainly wish I'd had a 'Dallas' when I started as the help he gives people with automation is well beyond what most would do.
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wearthefoxhat
Posts: 3206
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am

spreadbetting wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:19 pm
awhit66 wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:18 am


Dallas

What was the automation for this?

Andy

There's plenty of advice these days on the forum and I certainly wish I'd had a 'Dallas' when I started as the help he gives people with automation is well beyond what most would do.
Second that for sure.

IMO it's worth going through the whole section on automation, slowly but surely. Plenty on scalping/swing trading, not just for the horse racing enthusiast.

I'm planning a foray into the world of tennis trading next year....(mind you, I said that last year as well)...
gunnerryan
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:14 pm

Interesting linked thread. I've been testing strategies for both in running and pre off horse racing. I agree, it's very frustrating.

I'm not convinced it's possible to profit long term using automation. Is there anyone who has posted a P&L for a full month of automation with a profit?
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mcgoo
Posts: 898
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:30 pm

gunnerryan wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:11 pm
Interesting linked thread. I've been testing strategies for both in running and pre off horse racing. I agree, it's very frustrating.

I'm not convinced it's possible to profit long term using automation. Is there anyone who has posted a P&L for a full month of automation with a profit?
This is a question that has occurred to me too. I have run automation over thousands of markets with mixed success. I have recently developed complex tennis bots that show promise but of course have to wait for the tennis season to kick off again :shock: . I have a horse/dog bot that loses a little over time but seems to be doing better recently with a few tweaks. It is very very hard and I too would like to know if anyone has cracked it long term with BA alone-encouragement would help
LinusP
Posts: 1871
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:45 pm

mcgoo wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:40 am
gunnerryan wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:11 pm
Interesting linked thread. I've been testing strategies for both in running and pre off horse racing. I agree, it's very frustrating.

I'm not convinced it's possible to profit long term using automation. Is there anyone who has posted a P&L for a full month of automation with a profit?
This is a question that has occurred to me too. I have run automation over thousands of markets with mixed success. I have recently developed complex tennis bots that show promise but of course have to wait for the tennis season to kick off again :shock: . I have a horse/dog bot that loses a little over time but seems to be doing better recently with a few tweaks. It is very very hard and I too would like to know if anyone has cracked it long term with BA alone-encouragement would help
It’s very much possible, the biggest players on Betfair are all automated.
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wearthefoxhat
Posts: 3206
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:55 am

LinusP wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:16 am
mcgoo wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:40 am
gunnerryan wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:11 pm
Interesting linked thread. I've been testing strategies for both in running and pre off horse racing. I agree, it's very frustrating.

I'm not convinced it's possible to profit long term using automation. Is there anyone who has posted a P&L for a full month of automation with a profit?
This is a question that has occurred to me too. I have run automation over thousands of markets with mixed success. I have recently developed complex tennis bots that show promise but of course have to wait for the tennis season to kick off again :shock: . I have a horse/dog bot that loses a little over time but seems to be doing better recently with a few tweaks. It is very very hard and I too would like to know if anyone has cracked it long term with BA alone-encouragement would help
It’s very much possible, the biggest players on Betfair are all automated.
+1 (Based on what I've read over time)

I sense Tennis will become number 1 in automated trading (if it's not already). Thank the heavens for Bet Angel....
gunnerryan
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:14 pm

LinusP wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:16 am


It’s very much possible, the biggest players on Betfair are all automated.
Who are they? And do you have an example of their results?
LinusP
Posts: 1871
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:45 pm

gunnerryan wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:14 am
LinusP wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:16 am


It’s very much possible, the biggest players on Betfair are all automated.
Who are they? And do you have an example of their results?
Why does it matter? Focus your attention on your own results.
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mcgoo
Posts: 898
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:30 pm

LinusP wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:39 am
gunnerryan wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:14 am
LinusP wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:16 am


It’s very much possible, the biggest players on Betfair are all automated.
Who are they? And do you have an example of their results?
Why does it matter? Focus your attention on your own results.
I am just keen to know if they have done it with BA alone. Results details are not important to me
Also, this week I have had 3 instances where an opening bet has not been detected as matched (API error perhaps but not sure) and the trade has closed very late (greening up b4 jump) when all 3 were miles against me. Things like early jumps go against you..I get that ..but errors like the above are frustrating so encouragement helps
xitian
Posts: 457
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:08 pm

LinusP is right that the biggest players will be automated API traders, but most of them (or probably all of them) won't be using BetAngel. They'll be using their own software. The biggest big players (winning 7, 8, 9 figures a year) will be syndicates (teams of developers). As a point of reference, Peter Webb said he won 6 figures last year.

Can you win consistent money with BetAngel Automation - sure. Will you be one of the bigger players - unlikely. But then the bigger players are BIG.

If you write your own software your ceiling of what you can potentially win will be higher, but then the entry requirements are obviously higher too.
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mcgoo
Posts: 898
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:30 pm

xitian wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:02 pm
LinusP is right that the biggest players will be automated API traders, but most of them (or probably all of them) won't be using BetAngel. They'll be using their own software. The biggest big players (winning 7, 8, 9 figures a year) will be syndicates (teams of developers). As a point of reference, Peter Webb said he won 6 figures last year.

Can you win consistent money with BetAngel Automation - sure. Will you be one of the bigger players - unlikely. But then the bigger players are BIG.

If you write your own software your ceiling of what you can potentially win will be higher, but then the entry requirements are obviously higher too.
Thanks for that. Food for thought. I , a number of years ago, had software developed for BF, by a silicon valley dev (and top pen tester/white hat hacker but that's another story) The new BF API came along and we weren't able to finalise for various reasons. It taught me a lot (I lacked trading knowledge at the time that hopefully I am now picking up on as well). TBF BA has come a long way in automation (IMHO) recently..especially with stored values. The combination with signals is quite powerful. Some evolution towards using OR conditions as well as tracking available amounts at various prices + mature selective-logging usage to file + less intensive processor/memory usage would go a long way to maturing the product in an automation sense. I could further my VBA or C# etc knowledge to do it myself more but I like the BA interface (clearly aimed more at manual traders --- and this is very evident in its history) and reliability + I work full time. Things like tennis and football trading are clearly as lot more viable now too. It is a good package -at face value. I am hoping the automation matures quickly. Personally, after trading 5k markets in 3 months and losing $300, even being profitable a little would be nice. I have worked out how to mitigate the issue I mentioned above re matched bets but it is a little clunky, so will see how I go. I would love to see someone -amateur like me- post here that automation has netted them profit (even a little) over 12 months using BA alone. the would dangle the carrot. Good luck all :)
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