EU Membership Referendum (Brexit)

[BetScalper]

However, wouldn’t EU lawyers have already looked into this ?

Of course, I think you can be pretty confident everyone from the Attorney General down would be on top of the legalities on our side, and more than a few lawyers on their side too.

Remember we're the incompetent ones in this process, the EU manganged to get 27 countries to agree within months, but we can't find agreement between half a dozen parties after 2yrs. Why anyone wants the uk parliament in charge of anything is beyond me, if they think UK politics has ever done anything for the underclasses who are now waving their flags, then they haven't been taking notice for the last 100yrs.

+ 1 To your last comment.

So what happens if the highest court in the land (UK) rules it wasn't legal under our laws ?

[ShaunWhite]

So what happens if the highest court in the land (UK) rules it wasn't legal under our laws ?

Mmmm when I left school I didn't do a law degree, I become a traveling salesman selling 8" floppy disks and printer paper. you're asking the wrong guy

I have sympathy for the leavers BetScalper, but I think for donkeys' years they've been screwed over by our governments rather than anyone else's. The con-trick has been that our govs have conveniently managed to convince them that they're not to blame. The uk isn't crap because of 100,000 polish people, it's crap because poor communities have be abandoned ever since manufacturing collapsed. The only money those areas have received has come from the EU regional development funds. The anger is justified but it's anger at the wrong people. I promise you that Jacob Rees-Mogg doesn't give a toss about council estates in the midlands yet they see him as a savoiur.

Anyway my view is irrelevant.

[BetScalper]

So what happens if the highest court in the land (UK) rules it wasn't legal under our laws ?

Mmmm when I left school I didn't do a law degree, I become a traveling salesman selling 8" floppy disks and printer paper. you're asking the wrong guy

I have sympathy for the leavers BetScalper, but I think for donkeys' years they've been screwed over by our governments rather than anyone else's. The con-trick has been that our govs have conveniently managed to convince them that they're not to blame. The uk isn't crap because of 100,000 polish people, it's crap because poor communities have be abandoned ever since manufacturing collapsed. The only money those areas have received has come from the EU regional development funds. The anger is justified but it's anger at the wrong people. I promise you that Jacob Rees-Mogg doesn't give a toss about council estates in the midlands yet they see him as a savoiur.

Anyway my view is irrelevant.

I live in an old fishing community (Well it was at its peak), mention the EU in any local and you are more than likely to be thrown threw the pub window and the locals / landlord would turn a blind eye with sudden memory lose when the Police turn up.

That's probably extreme but i think you get the point.

[ShaunWhite]

I live in an old fishing community (Well it was at its peak), mention the EU in any local and you are more than likely to be thrown threw the pub window and the locals / landlord would turn a blind eye with sudden memory lose when the Police turn up.

That's probably extreme but i think you get the point.

I get it, it's shame the area was left to struggle. It's not like the govt didn't know what was happening. Maybe a new industrial estate with really cheap units and 0% business startup loans would have been handy (and boosted the ecomony). Not cheap but neither was bailing out the banks, the eu was a pretty good deal as a whole, but did villages get any of the benefits? Yours didn't and neither did mine. London got the pie and had two slices, doesn't mean we should throw away the pie, just share it round more fairly.

btw i'm not far from grimsby, the most depressing fishing town in the country so i do get it, i just wish people were fighting for more than just a few extra boxes of herrings because that's the most they'll get out of this. I'm not a remainer because i thought life was rosy, we needed change and better deal from our govt.

[firlandsfarm]

I promise you that Jacob Rees-Mogg doesn't give a toss about council estates in the midlands yet they see him as a savoiur.

... the eu was a pretty good deal as a whole …

I promise you 99% of the population doesn't give a toss about any estate outside of the one they live in!

The Common Market was a good idea … the EU introducing the ECJ, Freedom of Movement, Central Trade Agreements were crap ideas, they sought to rob people of their nationality by stealth. Where was the people's agreement for Maastricht and Lisbon?

[to75ne]

Where was the people's agreement for Maastricht and Lisbon?

by the members of parliament who were voted in by the public to form the relevant government and opposition at the time.

being a representative government system we voted them in to debate and make laws/policy/run the economy etc, on our behalf, instead of everyone having to understand every debate, every proposed law etc and voting on them.

ultimately we voted them in, it is therefore everyone collectively who agreed to Maastricht and Lisbon, even if they did not realise.

[firlandsfarm]

by the members of parliament who were voted in by the public to form the relevant government and opposition at the time.

being a representative government system we voted them in to debate and make laws/policy/run the economy etc, on our behalf, instead of everyone having to understand every debate, every proposed law etc and voting on them.

ultimately we voted them in, it is therefore everyone collectively who agreed to Maastricht and Lisbon, even if they did not realise.

If the terms of the Treaties were not in their election manifestos then the people did not vote for them but if we take your logic fully then we voted for them to vote for us, the people, to take the decision on Remain or Leave and we voted Leave so why haven't the muppets arranged for us to Leave?

[to75ne]

cant remember with lisbon, but Maastricht was advocated by the tories in their 1992 manifesto, and i think labour also.

[firlandsfarm]

cant remember with lisbon, but Maastricht was advocated by the tories in their 1992 manifesto, and i think labour also.

… after the event? Maastricht was signed on 7 February 1992 and the election was called on 11 March so the manifesto was after the event and cannot be considered evidencing that the voters voted on 9th April for the Treaty. But none of that changes that we were told "it is [our] decision and [our] decision will be implemented" but the muppets have shown themselves to be either out and out liars or incompetents … which is it?

[to75ne]

but the muppets have shown themselves to be either out and out liars or incompetents … which is it?

probably both but the truth is usually who is behind them (mp's and lords), follow the money its usually all about vested interests (sadly).

[ShaunWhite]

MPs are elected to use their judgment, not to exercise ours. It's been that way for centuries. Get over it. People have enough to do with their own jobs without being expected to study 1000 page agreements and make educated decisions. Most voters vote based on 'feelings' anyway and as traders we all know that gambling that way is a mugs game.

Would you ask someone who didn't know anything about sport to pick your trades? That's exactly what's going on here, my binman probably doesn't fully understand reciprocal arrangements and trade tariffs. Him wanting WTO is a joke, how are we going to compete without our sweet deals when Mexico can build a car for 40p.

[wearthefoxhat]

I've actually downloaded the 585 page pdf (withdrawal agreement) and the explainer. I doubt my MP will whizz over an email to me anytime soon.

Thought I'd see what the Backstop is all about...this is the explainers' version. Clear as mud....

backstop.PNG

[firlandsfarm]

MPs are elected to use their judgment, not to exercise ours.

If that's the case they should all be sacked for wasting public money. Why go to the expense of having a referendum if you are going to put it in the bin especially when £9million was spent on a leaflet telling us it will be our decision, whatever we decide will be implemented. And what training do they have for those roles? None I suspect, they got it so wrong pre-referendum with all their Project Fear scare stories. Shaun, I don't know about your binman but my cat could have got the pre-referendum predictions more right than them. They demonstrated they don't have a clue. And as for "get over it" is that another requirement of a Leaver but not a Remoaner? Seems to me we have had 2 years 9 months of not getting over it Remoaner talk … pot kettle black!

[superfrank]

Roger Bootle - EU will move to full fiscal union, or disband
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... ld-course/

"So, run it by me again: why do many people feel passionately that we must stay in? Of course there are some reasonable economic arguments for remaining although, in my view, they don’t stand up to close analysis. But, interestingly, they aren’t the ones ardently espoused by most Remainers. Many of them seem to confuse European identity with current European political institutions. Liking European food, wine, culture, skiing and sunshine – not to mention German cars – they seem to subliminally assume that somehow these goodies are bound up with current European political institutions and that we would lose access to them if we left the EU. But of course we would continue to enjoy them, just as other non-EU countries do. I have repeatedly stated that the EU is a zone of comparatively low growth and argued that this is related to the EU’s misguided policy obsessions, deriving from its essential nature. But still the Europhile establishment from Tony Blair downwards seems to presume that the EU is a stonking economic success. Perhaps arid economic statistics don’t cut any ice with them (they never did with Tony Blair)."

[BetScalper]

The EU has bigger problems to worry about.

If Russia starts encroaching on its eastern boarders then they will stand defenceless.

It’s very clear that unlike WW2, the USA will not get involved and Putin knows this.

If it wasn’t for the UK pleading with the Americans for help 70 years ago then most of Europe would have been destroyed and conquered.

France should know this more than most but yet the current leader seems he’ll bent on telling the UK to fuck off with no deal.

He and others should be careful what they wish for as France couldn’t fight its way out of a wet paper bag back in the late 1930s and I doubt they will ever again.