I think this topic is very important to traders who are struggling.
I have many years been into gambling, I came to trading because of the potential to make some serious money!
Over the years I have won and lost a fortune prior to trading, I thought trading was they key to where people only really made money.
What I learned was the fundamentals in learning to trade are the fundamentals to becoming successful in gambling. I never knew fundamentals in gambling existed. Go to any other betting forum, its all about picking winners. Picking winners is nothing. Picking value is nothing. Its everything else, money management, staking and discipline which is key.
Its just trading requires you sitting at a desk like a real job, its just the skills learned are the same needed in betting for a living.
I eventually learned, trading or betting, it really doesn't matter, its just trading taught me what it requires to make both of them pay. So for trading and this forum, I am extremely gracious.
From Gambler To Trader But With A Big Edge
- SeaHorseRacing
- Posts: 2893
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 7:06 pm
Last edited by SeaHorseRacing on Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
By the way, you trading guys can do this interesting thing:
download youк 3 months bets history from your bf account and then just play with this file in excel a little, like filter yor markets, bet side (back-lay), and other stuff. This can be very interesting and may surprise you cause it allows you to look at your trading from betors perspective. Like past week when this crazy asshole started to bomb at southwell, i sat at place market and got away with agly -300 red, i downloaed my bets history then and what do you think I could make like 3k+ if i just left that stupid nonsense market alone!
Btw remember that profit in bets history is pre-comission.
download youк 3 months bets history from your bf account and then just play with this file in excel a little, like filter yor markets, bet side (back-lay), and other stuff. This can be very interesting and may surprise you cause it allows you to look at your trading from betors perspective. Like past week when this crazy asshole started to bomb at southwell, i sat at place market and got away with agly -300 red, i downloaed my bets history then and what do you think I could make like 3k+ if i just left that stupid nonsense market alone!
Btw remember that profit in bets history is pre-comission.
Last edited by napshnap on Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- SeaHorseRacing
- Posts: 2893
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 7:06 pm
When I used to work in the racing yards, All I did was talk to other grooms at different yards whe I was at the races and got connected as best as I could. You be surprised how open and willing assistant trainers are. I've learned some hard lessons because most of them are useless but there's a few I know who a really good and give very accurate opinions. Some yards know nothing about there chances where some trainers are really open to their staff.
SeaHorseRacing wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:24 pmI think this topic is very important to traders who are struggling.
I have many years been into gambling, I came to trading because of the potential to make some serious money!
Over the years I have won and lost a fortune prior to trading, I thought trading was they key to where people only really made money.
What I learned was the fundamentals in learning to trade are the fundamentals to becoming successful in gambling. I never knew fundamentals in gambling existed. Go to any other betting forum, its all about picking winners. Picking winners is nothing. Picking value is nothing. Its everything else, money management, staking and discipline which is key.
Its just trading requires you sitting at a desk like a real job, its just the skills learned are the same needed in betting for a living.
I eventually learned, trading or betting, it really doesn't matter, its just trading taught me what it requires to make both of them pay. So for trading and this forum, I am extremely gracious.
I just can't see how you can separate your gambling from your trading .. no matter how much you say you do .. and the fact your making both pay is astonishing .
SeaHorseRacing wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:41 pmWhen I used to work in the racing yards, All I did was talk to other grooms at different yards whe I was at the races and got connected as best as I could. You be surprised how open and willing assistant trainers are. I've learned some hard lessons because most of them are useless but there's a few I know who a really good and give very accurate opinions. Some yards know nothing about there chances where some trainers are really open to their staff.
Do you keep a record of you " gambling bets " .. what is your longest losing run ? , do you make a level stakes profit ? ROI etc?
I started posted daily selections on another forum and continue to do so , simply because another poster was adamant he was " the bees knees " . As soon as he realised I was doing this on a daily basis he got defensive , abusive , and ultimately ceased posting .
I did it solely to prove that very few can make gambling pay ? .. it's backfiring at the moment ( not picking enough losers !! ), but ultimately will be proved right I'm sure .
I rarely "bet " these days but profile the races and horses I trade .. and racing staff, jockey chauffeurs, trainers etc are notoriously bad tipsters and wouldn't influence me a jot !!
- SeaHorseRacing
- Posts: 2893
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 7:06 pm
-98% of my time is trading.
- I keep a record of EVERYTHING! including the betting slip number, name of who served me, the shop number (90% of my bets are placed in a shop)
-ROI is 1.25% on singles, I usually cover 7 in a multiple most days, which you may have read about from me somewhere here in the past.
-My longest losing run since 2015 is 17.
- Whether I make it sound I making millions, I can assure you I am not!!! I am making more money trading and that still isnt a fortune, but its more then I can possibly imaging working 9-5.
-Only backing around 15/20 singles a month and I post a lot of them on here. Unless its info I have promised to respect or I think I will struggle to get money on and take SP, i post it up on the forum in todays racing forum.
-I don't back level stakes.
-I dont mix my betfair trading account with gambling. Big no.
If its a substantial bet, say more then a few hundred quid, I will usually knock the racing on the head for the remainder of the day.
- I have a big bet on Might Bite for the Gold Cup one of the reasons I have chosen to enjoy the days racing instead!
- I generally dont watch racing whilst trading, unless theres a reason... say a valuable race. I go through my trading like clock work and then when reading the form Eve/Morn I will watch replays back
- I keep a record of EVERYTHING! including the betting slip number, name of who served me, the shop number (90% of my bets are placed in a shop)
-ROI is 1.25% on singles, I usually cover 7 in a multiple most days, which you may have read about from me somewhere here in the past.
-My longest losing run since 2015 is 17.
- Whether I make it sound I making millions, I can assure you I am not!!! I am making more money trading and that still isnt a fortune, but its more then I can possibly imaging working 9-5.
-Only backing around 15/20 singles a month and I post a lot of them on here. Unless its info I have promised to respect or I think I will struggle to get money on and take SP, i post it up on the forum in todays racing forum.
-I don't back level stakes.
-I dont mix my betfair trading account with gambling. Big no.
If its a substantial bet, say more then a few hundred quid, I will usually knock the racing on the head for the remainder of the day.
- I have a big bet on Might Bite for the Gold Cup one of the reasons I have chosen to enjoy the days racing instead!
- I generally dont watch racing whilst trading, unless theres a reason... say a valuable race. I go through my trading like clock work and then when reading the form Eve/Morn I will watch replays back
- SeaHorseRacing
- Posts: 2893
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 7:06 pm
To give you a rough idea, hears a copy and paste from a spreadsheet of my singles for you Halliday.
25/01/2018 Poet's Society 3/1 No 11/4 WON
26/01/2018 Bungee Jump 10/3 Yes 3/1 WON
26/01/2018 Topmeup 14/1 No 16/1
27/01/2018 Agent Error 9/4 No 5/2
03/02/2018 George Dryden 11/4 N0 5/2 WON
03/02/2018 Check Em Tuesday 7/2 No 2/1
05/02/2018 Burauq 4/1 Yes 15/2
05/02/2018 Kyllach Me 20/1 Yes 16/1
06/02/2018 Be Mindful 13/2 Yes 8/1
07/02/2018 Harvest Ranger 14/1 Yes 5/1
07/02/2018 Runthatbymeagain 20/1 Yes 10/1
07/02/2018 Excellent George 5/2 Yes 2/1 WON
08/02/2018 Monarch Maid 11/4 No 7/2 WON
09/02/2018 September Issue 7/1 No 8/1
10/02/2018 Fearsome 9/2 No 7/1 WON
10/02/2018 Native Fighter 6/1 No 7/2
12/02/2018 Third Time Lucky 8/1 Yes 7/1
12/02/2018 Mount Tahan 10/3 Yes 3/1
13/02/2018 Crosse Fire 4/1 No 5/1
13/02/2018 Elegant Joan 28/1 No 40/1
14/02/2018 Awesome Allan 7/1 Yes 7/1
15/02/2018 Drop Kick Murpy 25/1 Yes 25/1
16/02/2018 Rainbow Rebel 8/1 No 9/2
16/02/2018 Ode To Autumn Evens No 8/13 WON
17/02/2018 Contrast 9/2 No 11/4 WON
17/02/2018 Major Valentine 10/1 Yes 10/1
19/02/2018 The Special One 3/1 Yes
20/02/2018 Fabrianski 9/2 No 3/1 WON
20/02/2018 Dark Alliance 9/4 No 15/8 WON
21/02/2018 Aussie Reigns 18/1 No
22/02/2018 Beauden Barrett 8/1 Yes
22/02/2018 Maratha 17/2 No 5/1
23/02/2018 Conkering Hero 8/1 No
26/02/2018 Dolly Mixture
Without condusing anyone ignore the two sets of odds and the YES and NOs its whether I took price, sp etc... what odds they were and what was the SP.
25/01/2018 Poet's Society 3/1 No 11/4 WON
26/01/2018 Bungee Jump 10/3 Yes 3/1 WON
26/01/2018 Topmeup 14/1 No 16/1
27/01/2018 Agent Error 9/4 No 5/2
03/02/2018 George Dryden 11/4 N0 5/2 WON
03/02/2018 Check Em Tuesday 7/2 No 2/1
05/02/2018 Burauq 4/1 Yes 15/2
05/02/2018 Kyllach Me 20/1 Yes 16/1
06/02/2018 Be Mindful 13/2 Yes 8/1
07/02/2018 Harvest Ranger 14/1 Yes 5/1
07/02/2018 Runthatbymeagain 20/1 Yes 10/1
07/02/2018 Excellent George 5/2 Yes 2/1 WON
08/02/2018 Monarch Maid 11/4 No 7/2 WON
09/02/2018 September Issue 7/1 No 8/1
10/02/2018 Fearsome 9/2 No 7/1 WON
10/02/2018 Native Fighter 6/1 No 7/2
12/02/2018 Third Time Lucky 8/1 Yes 7/1
12/02/2018 Mount Tahan 10/3 Yes 3/1
13/02/2018 Crosse Fire 4/1 No 5/1
13/02/2018 Elegant Joan 28/1 No 40/1
14/02/2018 Awesome Allan 7/1 Yes 7/1
15/02/2018 Drop Kick Murpy 25/1 Yes 25/1
16/02/2018 Rainbow Rebel 8/1 No 9/2
16/02/2018 Ode To Autumn Evens No 8/13 WON
17/02/2018 Contrast 9/2 No 11/4 WON
17/02/2018 Major Valentine 10/1 Yes 10/1
19/02/2018 The Special One 3/1 Yes
20/02/2018 Fabrianski 9/2 No 3/1 WON
20/02/2018 Dark Alliance 9/4 No 15/8 WON
21/02/2018 Aussie Reigns 18/1 No
22/02/2018 Beauden Barrett 8/1 Yes
22/02/2018 Maratha 17/2 No 5/1
23/02/2018 Conkering Hero 8/1 No
26/02/2018 Dolly Mixture
Without condusing anyone ignore the two sets of odds and the YES and NOs its whether I took price, sp etc... what odds they were and what was the SP.
This thread as has moved quickly!
I switched from gambling to trading purely because of the sheer amount of time required to keep on top of form. I'm probably spending as much time trading but at least it's flexible and no pressure to catch up with missed racing.
I'm completely unaffected by looking at my P/L, whether on a winning or losing sequence I treat each market as what it is, a new market.
I get served by some beautiful girls at my local supermarket but don't feel the need to make a note of her in my diary!
I switched from gambling to trading purely because of the sheer amount of time required to keep on top of form. I'm probably spending as much time trading but at least it's flexible and no pressure to catch up with missed racing.
I'm completely unaffected by looking at my P/L, whether on a winning or losing sequence I treat each market as what it is, a new market.
Why???SeaHorseRacing wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:04 pm- I keep a record of EVERYTHING! including the betting slip number, name of who served me, the shop number (90% of my bets are placed in a shop)
I get served by some beautiful girls at my local supermarket but don't feel the need to make a note of her in my diary!
- SeaHorseRacing
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- Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 7:06 pm
Betting and trading are two entirely different things. I keep a note of personal details, because everytime I hit a winner bookmakers think its acceptable to either void the bet or refuse to pay me.Derek27 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:38 pmThis thread as has moved quickly!
I switched from gambling to trading purely because of the sheer amount of time required to keep on top of form. I'm probably spending as much time trading but at least it's flexible and no pressure to catch up with missed racing.
I'm completely unaffected by looking at my P/L, whether on a winning or losing sequence I treat each market as what it is, a new market.Why???SeaHorseRacing wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:04 pm- I keep a record of EVERYTHING! including the betting slip number, name of who served me, the shop number (90% of my bets are placed in a shop)
I get served by some beautiful girls at my local supermarket but don't feel the need to make a note of her in my diary!
When I send records followed by legal documets, I show proof of bets they have accepted and paid and show them they have no legal right not to pay me.
When "JO has served me with his name on the slip 10 times last month and have taken my losers and paid my winners, it saves me 12 months of court proceedings to get my money.
Interesting . And a small level stake profit I think from your small sample ... similar to the " quickie" selections I post to try to prove my point .. tho I'm + 30 points despite my best efforts !!SeaHorseRacing wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:21 pmTo give you a rough idea, hears a copy and paste from a spreadsheet of my singles for you Halliday.
25/01/2018 Poet's Society 3/1 No 11/4 WON
26/01/2018 Bungee Jump 10/3 Yes 3/1 WON
26/01/2018 Topmeup 14/1 No 16/1
27/01/2018 Agent Error 9/4 No 5/2
03/02/2018 George Dryden 11/4 N0 5/2 WON
03/02/2018 Check Em Tuesday 7/2 No 2/1
05/02/2018 Burauq 4/1 Yes 15/2
05/02/2018 Kyllach Me 20/1 Yes 16/1
06/02/2018 Be Mindful 13/2 Yes 8/1
07/02/2018 Harvest Ranger 14/1 Yes 5/1
07/02/2018 Runthatbymeagain 20/1 Yes 10/1
07/02/2018 Excellent George 5/2 Yes 2/1 WON
08/02/2018 Monarch Maid 11/4 No 7/2 WON
09/02/2018 September Issue 7/1 No 8/1
10/02/2018 Fearsome 9/2 No 7/1 WON
10/02/2018 Native Fighter 6/1 No 7/2
12/02/2018 Third Time Lucky 8/1 Yes 7/1
12/02/2018 Mount Tahan 10/3 Yes 3/1
13/02/2018 Crosse Fire 4/1 No 5/1
13/02/2018 Elegant Joan 28/1 No 40/1
14/02/2018 Awesome Allan 7/1 Yes 7/1
15/02/2018 Drop Kick Murpy 25/1 Yes 25/1
16/02/2018 Rainbow Rebel 8/1 No 9/2
16/02/2018 Ode To Autumn Evens No 8/13 WON
17/02/2018 Contrast 9/2 No 11/4 WON
17/02/2018 Major Valentine 10/1 Yes 10/1
19/02/2018 The Special One 3/1 Yes
20/02/2018 Fabrianski 9/2 No 3/1 WON
20/02/2018 Dark Alliance 9/4 No 15/8 WON
21/02/2018 Aussie Reigns 18/1 No
22/02/2018 Beauden Barrett 8/1 Yes
22/02/2018 Maratha 17/2 No 5/1
23/02/2018 Conkering Hero 8/1 No
26/02/2018 Dolly Mixture
Without condusing anyone ignore the two sets of odds and the YES and NOs its whether I took price, sp etc... what odds they were and what was the SP.
Do you really have that much trouble in getting paid out from bookies ? .. and can't you get " better value " on the exchanges ?
I should have figured that, given the problems you've had with that 33-1 winner the other month, not being settled.SeaHorseRacing wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:46 pmBetting and trading are two entirely different things. I keep a note of personal details, because everytime I hit a winner bookmakers think its acceptable to either void the bet or refuse to pay me.Derek27 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:38 pmThis thread as has moved quickly!
I switched from gambling to trading purely because of the sheer amount of time required to keep on top of form. I'm probably spending as much time trading but at least it's flexible and no pressure to catch up with missed racing.
I'm completely unaffected by looking at my P/L, whether on a winning or losing sequence I treat each market as what it is, a new market.Why???SeaHorseRacing wrote: ↑Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:04 pm- I keep a record of EVERYTHING! including the betting slip number, name of who served me, the shop number (90% of my bets are placed in a shop)
I get served by some beautiful girls at my local supermarket but don't feel the need to make a note of her in my diary!
When I send records followed by legal documets, I show proof of bets they have accepted and paid and show them they have no legal right not to pay me.
When "JO has served me with his name on the slip 10 times last month and have taken my losers and paid my winners, it saves me 12 months of court proceedings to get my money.
- SeaHorseRacing
- Posts: 2893
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 7:06 pm
Not much of a problem getting on, my local big branded bookies generally will only lay me sp for the small stake but can drive 5/10 miles an get on easily. It's just when you hit a winner they try to have you on. Happens so much. I'm not Einstein or anything, they just don't like people going in taking something at 9/2 winning at 2/1. They hate it, especially when thy know your limited 10 miles down the road.
Yes more value on exchanges 100% i just don't mix it with my trading, really not worth the hassle.
My betdaq account "isnt mine" so used as a back up for bf crash. Ladbokes banned me when I sued them, even from betdaq.
Yes more value on exchanges 100% i just don't mix it with my trading, really not worth the hassle.
My betdaq account "isnt mine" so used as a back up for bf crash. Ladbokes banned me when I sued them, even from betdaq.
When I was trading and gambling I used to use my No. 2 Betfair account for betting. But I soon found it's easier to use the same account and keep separate accounts for each discipline.
I believe you're still allowed to use two accounts if you have them (their linked for premium charge purposes) but you can no longer open another Betfair account.
I believe you're still allowed to use two accounts if you have them (their linked for premium charge purposes) but you can no longer open another Betfair account.
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- Posts: 3140
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm
Hard to imagine you'd have been worse off using the exchange especially if you can only get SP but I don't have time to collate them
Last edited by spreadbetting on Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.