Which strategy to start with?

[johnsheppard]

Hello there,

I have been reading about trading for the past few months and read several books on the subject, however I am a complete noob at the practical side of things and was seeking advice on which strategy you guys would suggest focusing on (something that doesnt require fundamentalist knowledge, something purely technical).

I have decided to focus on Betangel and a single strategy. And do that until I make profit. That is: My plan is to start with a simple strategy. Focus on that one strategy and do very well with it. Hopefully, I wont have to know anything more than that if I can stave off boredom?

I might add that, I do not have facility to look at backdata, or analyse different race tracks. All I currently have is betangel and only the information betangel can tell me. (I will work torwards those things once I have mastered one strategy that can sustain me while I do those things)

What would you guys suggest that strategy might be? if it exists?

Thank you kindly for any thoughts

[iambic_pentameter]

Welcome, John.

Some of what you may read below may not be what you were looking to hear but I know from the advice I was given at the start of my journey, that it's better to get the truth rather than sugar coated advice.

The first thing you should do, is familiarise yourself with how Bet Angel works - for this, I'd advise spending no more than a few days in practice mode. To assist you with this, you would do well to visit the Bet Angel YouTube channel as there is a wealth of information on there.

The next thing you should do, is start putting real money through the markets - to begin with, just use £2 stakes. A lot of people fall into the trap of doing a lot of reading and trading on practice mode, only to find out that when they start using real money, things are very different.

If you are able to, do use a screen recorder so you can review the markets later.

As for a strategy, again I would refer you back to the Bet Angel YouTube channel - there is a specific horse racing playlist and you will find some useful content in there.

I'd also reccomend that you read the posts in the sticky section on the link below. They were written by a hugely experienced member of this forum and there is some gold in those pages.

viewforum.php?f=2

Mindset is a massive part of trading - you might not think so now but once you've got a few hundred hours under your belt and some losses (yes, you will lose money) you will know what I mean. There are some psychology videos on the Bet Angel YouTube channel.

The journey to becoming a competent trader is a long and highly difficult process; there will be times when you feel like giving up but do not worry - this is perfectly normal. Anyone who has become successful at this, has paid their dues in terms of screentime - by which I mean they have had to trade thousands of markets before they were able to understand what was going on.

Best of luck

Iambic

[ShaunWhite]

I have decided to focus on Betangel and a single strategy. And do that until I make profit.

Welcome, it may be just your terminology but there's a difference between a style/method and a strategy. By all means focus on a method (swing trading, in-play, scalping etc) but be prepared to get through a LOT of strategies. That said, when I started I had similar thoughts to you, focus on one method, and do it until you can do it, but trading isn't like that and some methods simply don't suit some people. So keep an open mind about what your niche is going to be.

[soccersaint]

There is a lot of help and support on here so you are in the best place to learn to start trading.

I found making a choice between inplay trading and pre race trading the best place to start.

Then if you intend to trade in play select the type of races you enjoy watching for example I dislike chasers but enjoy hurdle races. In play you got to watch the running of a race more often than not unless ofcourse you do automation, so you have to enjoy the events.

Once you have that sorted you can then look at a strategy/s within those races.

If you are new to racing I don’t see how you have much chance avoiding mistakes unless you copy someone’s trading strategy.

It’s a long haul as most traders will tell you. Hope you have the skin of a rhino and some deep pockets to begin with,
I never found trading for pennies much use but if you don’t have the cash I think you may well have to

Trade with pennies that is

[ruthlessimon]

I might add that, I do not have facility to look at backdata, or analyse different race tracks. All I currently have is betangel and only the information betangel can tell me. (I will work torwards those things once I have mastered one strategy that can sustain me while I do those things)

Hiya John,

I came to trading with that exact mentality - & it cost me 1 yr I reckon

People talk about light-bulb moments, here was one of mine -> when talking to one of the best pre-race traders in the world:

"I'm collecting data on sports I haven't traded yet"

What a liberating statement

& that's who you're going up against by putting data/analysis on the backburner. I'm not saying it's impossible to succeed (& data is not a magic bullet); but without that crutch; the chances of success are halved; imho

[johnsheppard]

I have decided to focus on Betangel and a single strategy. And do that until I make profit.

Welcome, it may be just your terminology but there's a difference between a style/method and a strategy. By all means focus on a method (swing trading, in-play, scalping etc) but be prepared to get through a LOT of strategies. That said, when I started I had similar thoughts to you, focus on one method, and do it until you can do it, but trading isn't like that and some methods simply don't suit some people. So keep an open mind about what your niche is going to be.

Thanks Shaun, sounds like sensible advice. So you would say a method classified as swing trading,scalping etc, what would you say a strategy is? E.g. Can you give me an example of a scalping strategy?

I gather you are just saying, I have to try everything until I find something that works? And outside the lines, I have to try everything and some things will work or wont work depending on ones temperament or personalilty?

[johnsheppard]

If you are new to racing I don’t see how you have much chance avoiding mistakes unless you copy someone’s trading strategy.

Well, that is my plan basically. I am operating on the assumption almost everything has been done by now. It's fun to try and do things your own way, but that takes longer

You guys are probably all groaning on the inside....oh here we go....another guy that just wants a magic recipie lol...

I am sure the magic recipie is here, and I will search for it...starting with pennies of course...

Thanks heaps everyone for your welcoming and sage advice, I appreciate it (cant reply to everything, but I am taking it in)...
John

[arbitrage16]

I might add that, I do not have facility to look at backdata, or analyse different race tracks. All I currently have is betangel and only the information betangel can tell me. (I will work torwards those things once I have mastered one strategy that can sustain me while I do those things)

& that's who you're going up against by putting data/analysis on the backburner. I'm not saying it's impossible to succeed (& data is not a magic bullet); but without that crutch; the chances of success are halved; imho

I think there is a particular irony here, making an outlandish statement about how essential data is to success....based on a data set of (perhaps) one successful trader?

OP - You have to change as a person in order to succeed at trading as the most important factor to get right is mindset. (source: 'one of the best pre-race traders in the world')

[JTEDL]

Good points made already, but once you understand using the software then £2 stakes, best way to learn! (make sure you have exit plan if trade goes wrong)

Also, I'm assuming you've seen Peter's videos on youtube? Plenty of pre off racing ones to watch to give some ideas.

[ShaunWhite]

I have decided to focus on Betangel and a single strategy. And do that until I make profit.

Welcome, it may be just your terminology but there's a difference between a style/method and a strategy.

Thanks Shaun, sounds like sensible advice. So you would say a method classified as swing trading,scalping etc, what would you say a strategy is? E.g. Can you give me an example of a scalping strategy?

Yes a method would be eg swing or scalp, the strategy how you when you decide when you get involved. As for an example, for scalping that might be when the market has been trading withing a tight range for a certain time, or when there is a clear favourite, or to only do it on handicap races. Method is what you do, strategy is the when and how.

[ShaunWhite]

I am sure the magic recipie is here, and I will search for it.

There won't be anything that is prescriptive to the point of being an out of the box success, but there's a huge amount that will enable you to create your own recipie.

[ShaunWhite]

I think there is a particular irony here, making an outlandish statement about how essential data is to success....based on a data set of (perhaps) one successful trader?

There are many people for whom data is essential, and many others for whom it's not.

OP - You have to change as a person in order to succeed at trading as the most important factor to get right is mindset. (source: 'one of the best pre-race traders in the world')

That's simply not true.
You only need to change your personality and mindset if you choose a style of trading that doesn't suit your existing personality and mindset. That 'you have to change' or more importantly 'you didn't change' is a convenient and suitably vague excuse for someone failing, when perhaps the real reason is that they've been steered towards an inappropriate method or not fully understood the fundamentals of what they're doing.

What's easier, to change your personality, or to change your method?

Should a technically competant person who enjoys maths puzzles, but has adhd and dislikes sport trade manually? No.
Should a focused disciplined lover of sport who doesn't know one end of a SQL database from another trade automation? No.

Swap roles and the need for psycological reprogramming becomes unnecessary. Even people who alledge to have changed their core modus operandi still seem to have personalities affected by their own personal backstory, have they changed or do they just think they've changed? Being 'one of the best pre-race traders in the world' doesn't automatically make you the best teacher, anymore than being the best plumber in the world does. Understand who you are and what suits you, don't just try and emulate someone else who's successful and attempt to change your personality to become them.

[brimson25]

Also, don't:

1. Spend all morning feeling unwell.

2. Convince yourself it will probably be ok.

3. Trade, while feeling ill.

4. Lose, feel worse.



(Serious point is - this isn't something most people can do at 60% of their normal best. I can't! If you're not right, just leave it alone.)

[ruthlessimon]

I think there is a particular irony here, making an outlandish statement about how essential data is to success....based on a data set of (perhaps) one successful trader?

OP - You have to change as a person in order to succeed at trading as the most important factor to get right is mindset. (source: 'one of the best pre-race traders in the world')

Data used incorrectly is very dangerous

There are plenty of examples of it not working - it's not a magic bullet. But in an industry where secrets won't be shared - we need an objective way to find them. I used to watch hrs & hrs & hrs of videos to try & find em - what a waste of time -> when Excel can rifle through most stuff in seconds (what happens if I just back hcaps, what happens if I just back 2.0 runners?)

Part of me actually says, "why are you advocating data, stfu"

People guard their spreadsheets with their life!

If I broke into BA HQ, I'm nicking the memory sticks, not Peter's psychology notes, but that's just me

[ShaunWhite]

But in an industry where secrets won't be shared

Exactly, and that's why people only sell training in 'manual' techniques, where it's a whole world of fuzzy logic and psychological your-fault-not-mine pitfalls, instead of teaching quantative methods whereby a sucessful pupil will actually jeopardise their edge.