Betfair announce end of trading then delete tweet

[JTEDL]

Betdaq pre off pretty much ok, but in running shocking, just not worth risking it.

[NickH]

I got a £50 goodwill gesture, anyone else?

Nothing from my side. Once telling them that I wanted to receive a reference number so I could take this to IBAS they send me the following:

'I have escalated your request for an IBAS reference number with the relevant team.

In line with the processes in this instance, they will review this situation and attempt to resolve this issue internally. Should you not agree with this resolution, or any subsequent offers made, a reference number would be generated for you.'

So although they in the first place were not putting the blame at their side (also the escalation management team), they seem rather hesitant of letting me go to IBAS and provide me with a reference number straight away...

[NickH]

I think we can safely say a policy of voiding bets in markets affected by an outage won't go down well and have many traders and bettors up in arms, but what about a simple cancel/leave to be matched/green-up option in the account settings?

I know it would take some complex maths to undertake a universal green-up but in it's simplest form they could pick a 100% book and chuck in green-up bets until they are all matched?

Well, they should by any means be able to place a bet on the sportsbook to cover the liability from the exchange side right?

[Archangel]

Betfair are 'all apologies' about the latest outage.

[Kai]

I got a £50 goodwill gesture, anyone else?

Nothing from my side. Once telling them that I wanted to receive a reference number so I could take this to IBAS they send me the following:

'I have escalated your request for an IBAS reference number with the relevant team.

In line with the processes in this instance, they will review this situation and attempt to resolve this issue internally. Should you not agree with this resolution, or any subsequent offers made, a reference number would be generated for you.'

So although they in the first place were not putting the blame at their side (also the escalation management team), they seem rather hesitant of letting me go to IBAS and provide me with a reference number straight away...

Wonder how they'd react if people on the forum organized a bit and threatened to do the same, perhaps getting dozens or hundreds of similar (organized) requests at the same time after every outage would provide at least some incentive for Betfair to properly deal with the stability issues or eventually even reach some sort of a workaround/compromise with the trading minority. I'm not from the UK so I'm not sure if there's any potential downside for complaining to IBAS, which would be more about making a bit of noise and less about actually getting your lost stakes back. Peter talked primarily about incentive in the outage video, I'm just thinking out loud along the lines of how the affected traders themselves could possibly provide some form of incentive for Betfair to keep the exchange stable. Perhaps the only real play is to make things more complicated for Betfair when outages occur, just like they make things complicated for traders, maybe that could nudge them in the right direction. But I don't know much about IBAS so not sure if something like that would be worthwhile doing.

[Derek27]

I got a £50 goodwill gesture, anyone else?

Nothing from my side. Once telling them that I wanted to receive a reference number so I could take this to IBAS they send me the following:

'I have escalated your request for an IBAS reference number with the relevant team.

In line with the processes in this instance, they will review this situation and attempt to resolve this issue internally. Should you not agree with this resolution, or any subsequent offers made, a reference number would be generated for you.'

So although they in the first place were not putting the blame at their side (also the escalation management team), they seem rather hesitant of letting me go to IBAS and provide me with a reference number straight away...

I didn't know you could use IBAS for losses caused by outages or failure to take bets. IBAS generally check to see if any rules have been broken by the gambling operator so I'd be surprised if they can do anything.

[Derek27]

I think we can safely say a policy of voiding bets in markets affected by an outage won't go down well and have many traders and bettors up in arms, but what about a simple cancel/leave to be matched/green-up option in the account settings?

I know it would take some complex maths to undertake a universal green-up but in it's simplest form they could pick a 100% book and chuck in green-up bets until they are all matched?

Well, they should by any means be able to place a bet on the sportsbook to cover the liability from the exchange side right?

If by 'they' you mean Betfair, that would be betting against themselves as Betfair is a bookie on the sportsbook.

[jimibt]

I think we can safely say a policy of voiding bets in markets affected by an outage won't go down well and have many traders and bettors up in arms, but what about a simple cancel/leave to be matched/green-up option in the account settings?

I know it would take some complex maths to undertake a universal green-up but in it's simplest form they could pick a 100% book and chuck in green-up bets until they are all matched?

Well, they should by any means be able to place a bet on the sportsbook to cover the liability from the exchange side right?

If by 'they' you mean Betfair, that would be betting against themselves as Betfair is a bookie on the sportsbook.

it's not beyond imagination that there are agnostic bots in the paddy power ecosystem that do a fair bit of mopping up across both entities (exchange and sb). if one were to peddle conspiracy theories, then one could easily see how over activity of these agnostic bots could compromise the stability of the system being leeched!!

[Derek27]

Wonder how they'd react if people on the forum organized a bit and threatened to do the same, perhaps getting dozens or hundreds of similar (organized) requests at the same time after every outage would provide at least some incentive for Betfair to properly deal with the stability issues or eventually even reach some sort of a workaround/compromise with the trading minority. I'm not from the UK so I'm not sure if there's any potential downside for complaining to IBAS, which would be more about making a bit of noise and less about actually getting your lost stakes back. Peter talked primarily about incentive in the outage video, I'm just thinking out loud along the lines of how the affected traders themselves could possibly provide some form of incentive for Betfair to keep the exchange stable. Perhaps the only real play is to make things more complicated for Betfair when outages occur, just like they make things complicated for traders, maybe that could nudge them in the right direction. But I don't know much about IBAS so not sure if something like that would be worthwhile doing.

One of the problems is that Betfair more or less has a monopoly and know many of people rely on them for a living. That's why they can get away with 40%+ premium charge. I only hope BetDaq or another exchange starts to rival them.

[NickH]

I got a £50 goodwill gesture, anyone else?

Nothing from my side. Once telling them that I wanted to receive a reference number so I could take this to IBAS they send me the following:

'I have escalated your request for an IBAS reference number with the relevant team.

In line with the processes in this instance, they will review this situation and attempt to resolve this issue internally. Should you not agree with this resolution, or any subsequent offers made, a reference number would be generated for you.'

So although they in the first place were not putting the blame at their side (also the escalation management team), they seem rather hesitant of letting me go to IBAS and provide me with a reference number straight away...

I didn't know you could use IBAS for losses caused by outages or failure to take bets. IBAS generally check to see if any rules have been broken by the gambling operator so I'd be surprised if they can do anything.

Well, once I asked them for possible next steps for me as I don't agree with their argumentation (and the 6 point in their terms and conditions), they answered with the following:

Should you wish to take this further then the next step in this case would be to contact IBAS who are an independent adjudicator and they would be able to look into your claim. However, if you do wish to take this to IBAS then please inform us first as we would need to provide you with a reference number that you would need to provide them to open your case.

I just think they did not expect me to keep on going looking at their response for a reference number..

[Derek27]

Well, they should by any means be able to place a bet on the sportsbook to cover the liability from the exchange side right?

If by 'they' you mean Betfair, that would be betting against themselves as Betfair is a bookie on the sportsbook.

it's not beyond imagination that there are agnostic bots in the paddy power ecosystem that do a fair bit of mopping up across both entities (exchange and sb). if one were to peddle conspiracy theories, then one could easily see how over activity of these agnostic bots could compromise the stability of the system being leeched!!

It's not beyond imagination but I think it's way beyond likelihood that a few bots among thousands could bring down the exchange.

[NickH]

Well, they should by any means be able to place a bet on the sportsbook to cover the liability from the exchange side right?

If by 'they' you mean Betfair, that would be betting against themselves as Betfair is a bookie on the sportsbook.

it's not beyond imagination that there are agnostic bots in the paddy power ecosystem that do a fair bit of mopping up across both entities (exchange and sb). if one were to peddle conspiracy theories, then one could easily see how over activity of these agnostic bots could compromise the stability of the system being leeched!!

Why wouldn't they have bots that hedge liability on the sportsbook on the exchange?

If they would place a bet on the sportsbook from their side after me requesting to hedge it (not with my own funds) the risk would be for them that my 'failed trade' wouldn't win and the sportsbook had to pay out. But theoretically they should be able to hedge your position right with their funds?

[napshnap]

Well, they should by any means be able to place a bet on the sportsbook to cover the liability from the exchange side right?

If by 'they' you mean Betfair, that would be betting against themselves as Betfair is a bookie on the sportsbook.

it's not beyond imagination that there are agnostic bots in the paddy power ecosystem that do a fair bit of mopping up across both entities (exchange and sb). if one were to peddle conspiracy theories, then one could easily see how over activity of these agnostic bots could compromise the stability of the system being leeched!!

It wouldn't hurt much to have some independent regulator to watch out for bf's "black box".

[jimibt]

If by 'they' you mean Betfair, that would be betting against themselves as Betfair is a bookie on the sportsbook.

it's not beyond imagination that there are agnostic bots in the paddy power ecosystem that do a fair bit of mopping up across both entities (exchange and sb). if one were to peddle conspiracy theories, then one could easily see how over activity of these agnostic bots could compromise the stability of the system being leeched!!

It wouldn't hurt much to have some independent regulator to watch out for bf's "black box".

that was more what my tongue in cheek comment was implying. it would be ever so easy to (ab)use an ecosystem that you had direct access across; the equivallent of having a watercooler discussion that only the participants were privvy to

[Derek27]

Sorry jimibt, I've only just woken up.