Lay the First to Trade at 2.0 Guardian Automation Bot

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scesc
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 8:01 am

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the thinking behind the concept at the start of this thread (i.e. laying the first to trade at 2.0). Is it because there are more often false moves in the market when a race goes in-play, so you are more likely to be laying a losing runner ?

I tried googling the idea, as Dallas had said it's a well advertised strategy, but came up blank.
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Dallas
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TBH I have never looked for it myself or know any of the reasoning behind it, over the space of several months half a dozen plus different forum users must of asked how to set this particular stratergy up so it must of been doing its rounds somewhere online hence the reason i decided to include it as one of the first example files that was uploaded. and it seems to be up there still as one of the most downloaded.
welshtrekker
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:12 pm

It has to be varied or put up with losing runs a lot. Kills betting banks.
Rather than hope that the first below 2.0 MAY lose, best to check that it MAY ACTUALLY lose surely. Betting on the 1st below 2.0 or just the fav is what Pete's Betfair Method is about along with an insane high risk staking plan.
What if you laid another, like the 2nd fav or 3rd fav if the 1st fav is steaming.
Sounds more sense but perhaps someone has tried and has more input.
charger123
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Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:55 pm

hi Dallas, newbe to forum but being using ba for over a year. I've created a bot simular to this but also looks at laying the 2nd fav to offset if the price comes in. i have used the fix order as a seperate rule, to work when the first trigger is sent. But having watched some races, and seeing the 2nd fav conditions met, was wondering if the 2 fav,s rules are not being seen, or is the fix order creating a problem. Penny for your thougths, thank you.
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Dallas
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Its difficult to say without knowing the whole rule set up. I assume you have at least three seperate rule types
Lay fav
Lay 2nd fav
Fix order

If so the fix order should be set to trigger at the same moment as the lay fav rule (ie use all same conditions etc) also make sure it only triggers this one time.
With that done the lay 2nd rule 'if applied to betfair order of favourtism 2' should then be able to trigger once its conditions are met.

This thread will show how to check which parts of your rule is triggering and which arn't
https://www.betangel.com/forum/viewtopi ... 47&t=12557

From that you should be able to isolate the rule type causing the problem.

If not just post back
charger123
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Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:55 pm

Thanks for your response Dallas, the trigger seems the to be locking down the 1st & 2nd fav's. But looking at the timings on the graphes againsted the log times there seems to be more that 2 sec's from the expected trigger point. I'm using restricted time after start 20ms, and relivent odds change on last traded price, 1 sec ago. If I put in 0 sec ago, would that give me 0 to 0.9999. sec activaton time if odds drop suddenly, and is the log time the point betfair puts the trade into the market (after the inplay delay). Hope you can help, cause as the old saying goes 'times money'. Cheers
bimbi
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:13 pm

Please Dallas tell me about this:I just had a look on this rule and I dont understand how is gonna greein it up without offset bet .I know ,if is back is ok ,but if is lay, need the offset in order to green up,if Im not wrong .I hope I explained good enough,what I mean.Thanks very much.
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Dallas
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bimbi wrote:Please Dallas tell me about this:I just had a look on this rule and I dont understand how is gonna greein it up without offset bet .I know ,if is back is ok ,but if is lay, need the offset in order to green up,if Im not wrong .I hope I explained good enough,what I mean.Thanks very much.
There is no greening up with this stratergy (unless you want to add one) it's just a straight lay bet on the first runner to trade a 2.0
bimbi
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:13 pm

O yes ,but what I mean is -to make profit ,it needs offset ,otherwise is not making profit at all ,as long as i know.I mean if is a back ,according to betangel,I dont need to offset it ,but if is lay its not giving any profit without offset to green it up.Im not sure how to explain better what i mean ,but i hope you understand my point.Thank youy very much.My question is mainly ,dont you think that if i have this rule on auto ,to make profit i need offset.
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Dallas
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bimbi wrote:O yes ,but what I mean is -to make profit ,it needs offset ,otherwise is not making profit at all ,as long as i know.I mean if is a back ,according to betangel,I dont need to offset it ,but if is lay its not giving any profit without offset to green it up.Im not sure how to explain better what i mean ,but i hope you understand my point.Thank youy very much.My question is mainly ,dont you think that if i have this rule on auto ,to make profit i need offset.
You dont need to offset a lay bet to make a profit, a lay bet is just the opposite of a back bet where your betting that a selection will lose and if it does then you make a profit.

So for this rule when you lay the first runner to reach 2.0 for £10 as long as any of the other runners go on to win the race you will make a profit of £10
bimbi
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Thanks very much Dallas
bimbi
Posts: 97
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PeterLe wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:37 am
Hi Marc
Think Dallas would agree that these BOT as intended as a foundation (not a full blown strategy as such).

It might help you out..
Try adding another condition that looks at the book percentage too..(on the back side)
Have a think about what would happen if it became a close race?

Also you might want to edit the 2 to something like 2.06 (yes you will lose a few pennies if two trade under 2.06), but you will get matched more..you'd besurprised how many touch this area but doesnt go under..

Tomorrow have a think about what other rule you could put in to filter some of the non qualifying races etc

Regards
Peter
bimbi
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:13 pm

HI Peter ,can you please tell me what do you mean with (you will lose few pennies if tow get traded under 2.06 ,if is only one triggering with this bot ,please.Thank you.
PeterLe
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bimbi wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:52 pm
HI Peter ,can you please tell me what do you mean with (you will lose few pennies if tow get traded under 2.06 ,if is only one triggering with this bot ,please.Thank you.
Hi
If you were to lay two selections and both lay prices were above 2.0, then you would lose overall.
My suggestion would be to create a very simple spreadsheet and play around with the numbers so you can understand the book percentages.
Take a screen shot of a market (say 4 runners) 1 hour out and then another 2 min out and plug those numbers into your spreadsheet. manually adjust the figs and you will see the changes in book percentage etc
You will see that the odds can only move so far before traders step in to correct the prices.
Regards
Peter
calvinkbee
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:24 am

This is a great script and one I am using in test mode as I practise automation scripts...thanks Dallas!

I have tried editting this script to create a script that will lay a specific horse if it hits 3.0 in running and then put an immediate back bet @3.5 on condition only that the lay bet has been matched.

I'm struggling - but then a newbie.

If anyone has any advice as to which steps I should follow in the automation it would be greatfully appreciated.
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