penalised Serena

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would you penalize Serena if you were umpire???

Poll ended at Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Yes
28
88%
No
4
13%
 
Total votes: 32
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gutuami
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"" Serena to chair umpire: "You will never, ever, ever be on another court of mine as long as you live. You are the liar. When are you going to give me my apology? You owe me an apology. Say it. Say you're sorry." ...and then calling him a "thief" ""

should an umpire be more lenient for the sake of grand slam final??

was that bit of couching giving her so much advantage???

who ruined the biggest day of Osaka Sirena or the umpire??


please vote
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Kafkaesque
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Sorry, but I don't see how it can even be a debate.

He clearly tried to coach. Whether Serena saw it, wanted it to be given to her, how much advantage (if any) it gave her, or anything els is completely irrelevant.. It's a clear violation and automatic warning. I have - or should say had - a ton of respect for her as a sporting legend, but the fact that she disagreed and was arrogant enough to demand the decision reversed with an apology, it was still a warning.

She choose to act like a toddler and smash a racket after that warning. Automatic violation number two. The third is the only one even remotely up for discussion. The umpire had already given her leeway, and couldn't have her continously contesting his integrity every two games.

Serena ruined that final all on her own, not the umpire. Not even close! Yes, outside factors in the coach's decision, the umpire's ruling, and Osaka's superb play were present, but Serena made all the immature decisions afterwards which was what ruined it.
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gutuami
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I think that the couching bit should have been left aside. The umpire was too strict for a final. But at the same time Sirena was 'a siren". and in the end she is the one to blame.
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Kafkaesque
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gutuami wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:34 am
I think that the couching bit should have been left aside. The umpire was too strict for a final. But at the same time Sirena was 'a siren". and in the end she is the one to blame.
The umpire saw cheating happening - by the coach, not necessarily Serena - and should have left it alone?

The precedent should be that it's okay to cheat a little bit/once, because it's a final?
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Derek27
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Some people found it funny, but I always hated the way John McEnroe tried to referee his matches himself, as well as acting like a big baby. Such behaviour should never be tolerated at any level.

Since when has being a mother meant you deserve favours on the tennis court?
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gutuami
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I am not sure that could be called cheating. The umpire should have been a bit more indulgent. Is not so advantageous for a 23 grand slam champion that bit of coaching. and she was loosing so Naomi wouldn't have objected anything. She was the better player. At first I thought that Sirena is doing it on purpose to brake Naomi's pace. If she picked carefully her words that would have worked. But the "thief" was the last drop.
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Kafkaesque
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gutuami wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:54 am
I am not sure that could be called cheating. The umpire should have been a bit more indulgent. Is not so advantageous for a 23 grand slam champion that bit of coaching. and she was loosing so Naomi wouldn't have objected anything. She was the better player. At first I thought that Sirena is doing it on purpose to brake Naomi's pace. If she picked carefully her words that would have worked. But the "thief" was the last drop.
What would you need to do to cheat then? Cheating is defined as gaining an unfair advantage. Would you in all honesty say that it's not an unfair advantage if one player is allowed to receive coaching during the match, while the opponent isn't allowed to/doing it?

Fair enough, if you happen to be of the opinion that the coaching didn't have much effect. Your're entitled to that opinion. Both our opinions on that doesn't really matter in terms of whether it's cheating.
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gutuami
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it takes only three people to spoil a final, a couch and his player and the umpire. The umpire should be the wisest of all.
Wildly
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Serena's coach Patrick Mouratoglou: "I was (coaching) like 100 per cent of the coaches in 100 per cent of the matches. So we have to stop this hypocrisy"

Better alternative, stop the coaching. Unless you want to change the rules and allow coaching during tennis matches and further slow a sport that can take way too long between points.

While it was an odd time to begin enforcing an overdue change, it was Serena's actions after the coaching violation that cost her a point and then a game.
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Kafkaesque
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gutuami wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:13 am
it takes only three people to spoil a final, a couch and his player and the umpire. The umpire should be the wisest of all.
It only takes one of them.

Perhaps the umpire should be the smartest. Still though, his job is the make sure a match is carried out fairly and in accordance with the rules, and secondarily in accordance with the unwritten rules of etiquette. That always should always come before pampering to a specific player's poor behaviour to "save" a final.

What you're saying, for me, translates to wanting a sport where it's okay to abuse the umpire and question his/her integrity. The slippery slope can't be entered just because it happens to be a GS final.
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Daaniel
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Patrick Mouratoglou admitted in a post match interview he was coaching so the umpire was within his rights to give a coaching warning. The drama should have ended there !

Obviously Serena couldn't stop. Second warning: racket abuse, fair warning.

Third warning: verbal abuse, we all heard what Serena said.

I'd say the umpire was correct.

This is not the first time Serena outbursts (2009 Us Open semi final vs Kim Clijsters), not the second (2011 Us Open final vs Sosur), it's actually the third time this happens and every time Serena was in a loosing position ...
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Derek27
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I don't think many people will buy it - when she says she's standing up for women's rights, but I'm disappointed Billy Jean King made a statement supporting her.
Trader Pat
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Daaniel wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:47 am
I'd say the umpire was correct.

This is not the first time Serena outbursts (2009 Us Open semi final vs Kim Clijsters), not the second (2011 Us Open final vs Sosur), it's actually the third time this happens and every time Serena was in a loosing position ...

Exactly and I think something was missed by commentators, pundits and even the internet. That something is Serena wasnt only having a go at the umpire, she was trying to intimidate her opponent, its whats made her so succesful. How many times has Serena been down a break in the first set of a match only to start grunting louder, screaming in the direction of her opponent when she wins a point and giving the evil eye? Usually this sort of behaviour works and the opponent wets themselves and crumbles. Obviously yesterday it went a lot further than that but you can be sure while she was throwing the toys out of the pram she had one eye on her opponent to see what if any effect it had on her.

To then play the sexist card is out of order imo, its an attack on the umpires character and she should be sanctioned for it. I feel most sorry for Osaka though, the whole circus has taken the gloss of what should be the biggest moment of her life, just like Serena's behaviour took the gloss of Stosur's only major win in 2011.
belperbloke
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I really can't understand what her outburst had to do with women's rights whatsoever but perhaps it's because I'm a bloke??? All she succeeded in doing was spoiling what should have been a wonderful occasion for Osaka and for that she should hang her head in shame.
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Kafkaesque
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Trader Pat wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:31 pm
Daaniel wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:47 am
I'd say the umpire was correct.

This is not the first time Serena outbursts (2009 Us Open semi final vs Kim Clijsters), not the second (2011 Us Open final vs Sosur), it's actually the third time this happens and every time Serena was in a loosing position ...

Exactly and I think something was missed by commentators, pundits and even the internet. That something is Serena wasnt only having a go at the umpire, she was trying to intimidate her opponent, its whats made her so succesful. How many times has Serena been down a break in the first set of a match only to start grunting louder, screaming in the direction of her opponent when she wins a point and giving the evil eye? Usually this sort of behaviour works and the opponent wets themselves and crumbles. Obviously yesterday it went a lot further than that but you can be sure while she was throwing the toys out of the pram she had one eye on her opponent to see what if any effect it had on her.

To then play the sexist card is out of order imo, its an attack on the umpires character and she should be sanctioned for it. I feel most sorry for Osaka though, the whole circus has taken the gloss of what should be the biggest moment of her life, just like Serena's behaviour took the gloss of Stosur's only major win in 2011.
Spot on. Regarding taking the gloss from an opponent's big occassion, what really pushed me from thinking it was out of order into thinking outragious was the award ceremony. After telling the crowd to stop boing, it came off as backhanded to me to tell them to make it about Osaka and saying she played well. It's just the one word, but she didn't play well. She was outstanding or any other word you care to use stronger than "well". Serena had the chance to somewhat redeem herself, by truly making it about Osaka, and acknowledge that she was losing fair and square before all the drama. That's the only thing, she could have done to get the US crowd to praise Osaka, as they should had done in that moment. She chose not to. That speaks volumes on her character, and annoyed me more than the preceding events.
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