Giving up after a few losses is daft imo. You aren't going to instantly be able to switch from being in BF mode to BD mode.
It will take time to adapt.
I had a shocking afternoon by my normal win to loss ratio but stuck with it and lost on about 3 races this evening.
Bank grew by 10% and learnt a lot. Tomorrow I will be making changes to what I do and am hoping to see a profit of double todays if not more.
People who say you can't trade on Betdaq, rubbish!
I will post a proper view on today in the morning when I am fresh. Would be good to hear form others who tried it.
Monday 18th July
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
I don't disagree, I just wasn't in the mood to try something new today and was busy with other things too. I haven't given up, far from it.
btw do you watch Betfair at the same time? I suspect it's a daft thing to do?, better to just have it open in case of emergency.
btw do you watch Betfair at the same time? I suspect it's a daft thing to do?, better to just have it open in case of emergency.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Yes I had the Betfair Ladder, Grid and all the charts open.
I had the Betdaq ladder and grid open.
But I do have rather a lot of screen real estate and will be adding another monitor for tomorrow
Basically I watched my usual indicators on Betfair and executed the trade on Betdaq while also watching for specific opportunities BD throws up.
The point about not being able to trade on Betdaq was not made at you, it was a general comment as I have got rather annoyed on here and elsewhere by people saying it can't be done when most of the time it is the individual that is the issue and not the exchange. There is opportunity just about everywhere, it is whether the individual can spot that opportunity and take advantage of it.
I had the Betdaq ladder and grid open.
But I do have rather a lot of screen real estate and will be adding another monitor for tomorrow
Basically I watched my usual indicators on Betfair and executed the trade on Betdaq while also watching for specific opportunities BD throws up.
The point about not being able to trade on Betdaq was not made at you, it was a general comment as I have got rather annoyed on here and elsewhere by people saying it can't be done when most of the time it is the individual that is the issue and not the exchange. There is opportunity just about everywhere, it is whether the individual can spot that opportunity and take advantage of it.
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
No offence taken!
I wonder if trading Betdaq is a slightly purer form of trading than Betfair because it is a secondary exchange? Manipulation with big money isn't going to be winner on Betdaq...
I've decided to get more involved in futures - I was gonna wait until the winter before getting stuck in again, but current events have forced me to reconsider sports betting as a long term plan. I'm also gonna pursue other incomes streams.
I wonder if trading Betdaq is a slightly purer form of trading than Betfair because it is a secondary exchange? Manipulation with big money isn't going to be winner on Betdaq...
I've decided to get more involved in futures - I was gonna wait until the winter before getting stuck in again, but current events have forced me to reconsider sports betting as a long term plan. I'm also gonna pursue other incomes streams.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Just thought I would do a quick post on how I found trading on Betdaq yesterday.
First of all I used a much smaller bank than I would normally use. There were a few reasons behind this, one was poor planning on my part and not having the money in place, why do banks still take so long to transfer funds??? The other main reason was that whenever you start something new it is important to protect your bank.
It was never going to be a smooth transition from trading on BF PR to BD PR. They are two different animals. Also I like routine, it takes me time to feel comfortable with a new screen setup and the feel for somewhere new but I was getting into it as the day wore on.
I was surprised with how much money there was on Betdaq, much better than I have seen in the past, will this last who knows.
The fill rate was poor at times, where I could have scalped on BF I was often having to sit and wait to get orders matched, this is away from the fav. But this was not always the case.
I caught some nice swing trades, or at least what I class as swing trades and these were easy enough to get filled on.
Quite often you would see better prices on Betdaq than you would on Betfair and to very good money, most of the time it was running the same prices as Betfair, occasionally lower. But add in the lower commission rates and then even PC and the prices were probably still better.
The slowness of the bet retrival is an issue and hopefully that can be sorted, it felt like I was left waiting quite often and could tell I had been filled by the amounts in the queue as opposed to my actual orders at times which is just stupid.
The software is clearly behind where it really needs to be but that is changing hopefully in time but it is still perfectly useable. Anyone using either of the above as to reasons why they can't make money there is not being truthful with themselves.
When I first deposited my money the other day I had an issue in that my bank blocked the transaction but that was sorted when they rang me and I was then able to deposit no issues.
I find it annoying when the price is between 2.0 and 3.0 that they have 2.10 then 2.11 then 2.12. I would sonner that was ditched and went to 2.10 then 2.12.
I traded 27 races and lost on 8 which is much worse than normal but I had various interruptions and distractions as I was having a new shower fitted at the same time as trading. Most of those losses came during the afternoon during the interruptions. I hope to improve on that.
My bank grew by 10% roughly and I turned over about 30% of what I normally would on Betfair. Taking account of the 60% PC and the total I made yesterday represents roughly half of what I would expect to make normally on Betfair from PR trading.
By having a small bank I hit issues where I couldn't take positions as I didn't have the funds and couldn't trade more than one horse at a time but this has been sorted out for today.
So overall I found it good, I don't see why people could have excuses for not trying it, the one issue I guess is if you are trading with very small amounts or get small greens there is the annoying issue with regards to Betdaq's min. stake which makes greening up correctly not always possible. I wish they would sort this out.
I am changing a few things for today and I am hoping for a better day.
It would be good to hear how others find it? Any small/new'ish traders trying it?
First of all I used a much smaller bank than I would normally use. There were a few reasons behind this, one was poor planning on my part and not having the money in place, why do banks still take so long to transfer funds??? The other main reason was that whenever you start something new it is important to protect your bank.
It was never going to be a smooth transition from trading on BF PR to BD PR. They are two different animals. Also I like routine, it takes me time to feel comfortable with a new screen setup and the feel for somewhere new but I was getting into it as the day wore on.
I was surprised with how much money there was on Betdaq, much better than I have seen in the past, will this last who knows.
The fill rate was poor at times, where I could have scalped on BF I was often having to sit and wait to get orders matched, this is away from the fav. But this was not always the case.
I caught some nice swing trades, or at least what I class as swing trades and these were easy enough to get filled on.
Quite often you would see better prices on Betdaq than you would on Betfair and to very good money, most of the time it was running the same prices as Betfair, occasionally lower. But add in the lower commission rates and then even PC and the prices were probably still better.
The slowness of the bet retrival is an issue and hopefully that can be sorted, it felt like I was left waiting quite often and could tell I had been filled by the amounts in the queue as opposed to my actual orders at times which is just stupid.
The software is clearly behind where it really needs to be but that is changing hopefully in time but it is still perfectly useable. Anyone using either of the above as to reasons why they can't make money there is not being truthful with themselves.
When I first deposited my money the other day I had an issue in that my bank blocked the transaction but that was sorted when they rang me and I was then able to deposit no issues.
I find it annoying when the price is between 2.0 and 3.0 that they have 2.10 then 2.11 then 2.12. I would sonner that was ditched and went to 2.10 then 2.12.
I traded 27 races and lost on 8 which is much worse than normal but I had various interruptions and distractions as I was having a new shower fitted at the same time as trading. Most of those losses came during the afternoon during the interruptions. I hope to improve on that.
My bank grew by 10% roughly and I turned over about 30% of what I normally would on Betfair. Taking account of the 60% PC and the total I made yesterday represents roughly half of what I would expect to make normally on Betfair from PR trading.
By having a small bank I hit issues where I couldn't take positions as I didn't have the funds and couldn't trade more than one horse at a time but this has been sorted out for today.
So overall I found it good, I don't see why people could have excuses for not trying it, the one issue I guess is if you are trading with very small amounts or get small greens there is the annoying issue with regards to Betdaq's min. stake which makes greening up correctly not always possible. I wish they would sort this out.
I am changing a few things for today and I am hoping for a better day.
It would be good to hear how others find it? Any small/new'ish traders trying it?
Andy, your input is very much appreciated, I was just observing yesterday, so will give betdaq a go with small stakes today and see how I get on, I am sure many more were just observing yesterday as well and hopefully now there will be many more tempted to give it a go!
I had a go on saturday when betfair went down. Initially I was a bit disappointed when I saw the fill rate, but after a couple of races I could start to see opportunities there opening up in different ways, and made a little bit. Many people will find they have to trade differently to on betfair, but without a doubt there is money to be made. I bet there are people out there already making good money on the site and who have been for a while that we haven't heard about (yet)
I started trading betdaq a few weeks before the latest premium charge announcemnet came out on BF.
I found it ok to trade then, there was money around, my main concern then was whose money it was. I really dont like the idea of trading on a seeded exchange.
Though yesterday liquidity definitely picked up. There was plenty of money around and the spreads were much tighter.
Previously the back and lay prices on Betdaq were the middle and thirde prices on Betfair. Though this has tigthened up, and as you said there are loads of occassions where you can actually beat the price on Betfair.
Betfairs mistake is that their new charges arent just hitting traders and in runners. There are plenty of outright position takers caught up in the charge.
So it isnt just traders playing against traders over there. Everybody is better off. The problem for the big position takers is that losing weeks/months are very much a reality. With no rebates, they are probably better off on Betdaq than traders are. As any winning weeks will be hit hard by the charge.
At the moment I think Betdaq is perfectly tradable, hopefully it will continue to improve.
I found it ok to trade then, there was money around, my main concern then was whose money it was. I really dont like the idea of trading on a seeded exchange.
Though yesterday liquidity definitely picked up. There was plenty of money around and the spreads were much tighter.
Previously the back and lay prices on Betdaq were the middle and thirde prices on Betfair. Though this has tigthened up, and as you said there are loads of occassions where you can actually beat the price on Betfair.
Betfairs mistake is that their new charges arent just hitting traders and in runners. There are plenty of outright position takers caught up in the charge.
So it isnt just traders playing against traders over there. Everybody is better off. The problem for the big position takers is that losing weeks/months are very much a reality. With no rebates, they are probably better off on Betdaq than traders are. As any winning weeks will be hit hard by the charge.
At the moment I think Betdaq is perfectly tradable, hopefully it will continue to improve.
And also some traders like to gamble too. With Betfairs charges it makes no sense to do any gambling on Betfair, you just dont know what price you are getting.
I think Betdaq is great for both trading and gambling. And they are still 2.5% until the end of september.
I think Betdaq is great for both trading and gambling. And they are still 2.5% until the end of september.