Who here is profitable?

[geoffjbaker]

In answer to the original posters question I'm definitely not profitable. This is my second attempt at trying betfair trading and not really going much better than the first attempt a few years ago. Having spent about 4 years failing at affiliate marketing it would appear I'm going to bang my head against the betfair wall for a while before having to admit defeat and get a job - lol!

[gwatson693]

I'm not. I do know that the reason for not being profitable is me. I get bored and then start gambling. One thing I've realised is that there is no quick path to riches. Trading or otherwise. I wish you the best of luck. I really hope you find something that makes you money and happy.

[MobiusGrey]

Not expecting everyone will reveal... or even be truthful! But Just wondering a show of hands who here is:

A) Fulltime trader (earning similar or more than old day job!)
B) Profitable, but not fulltime


Just curious really, some folks seem to ''get it'' quickly. Others seem to have been at it years and not even come close. I think a quote I like that applies is:

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Unfortunately, I am insane.

Over What timeframe?

> a day = yes
> a week = yes
> a month = yes
> 6 months = yes
> 1 year = no

[Kai]

This is most definitely one of the biggest challenges I've undertook in my life and I'm only 7 months in but won't give in until I crack it.

Indeed. For me the biggest challenge by far, this much was crystal clear a few months in. Before this it was definitely quitting smoking in mid 20s which is usually the first true mental challenge for young adults, I relapsed too many times to remember and it was a mental tug of war at times but in the end I finally kicked and destroyed this disgusting habit.

But good to see a decent trading discussion, not been many of these in recent times compared to previous years, far too many "leechers" and not enough "seeders".

Very happy to give kudos to anyone new that cracks a market in 2024, the entry barrier has probably risen but so did the level of learning material out there. But do remember that when asking someone for advice you are inadvertently asking for a share of their profits, of which there may not be an infinite amount. People generally do want to help but they also don't want to make their trading harder than it needs to be, so it's always a tricky balance overall.

Persisting until you crack it like you say is all well and good, but admittedly one big mistake I made was relying too much on motivation. It's just not sustainable for extended periods of time, because it basically runs on dopamine so it's only temporary, unlike something like discipline. There's quite a bit of science here but in short for those that "lack motivation" I would maybe just bin the whole motivation concept and build discipline and good habits instead.

I've learned that everything basically starts with good sleep, because a tired mind is simply put a lazy mind and sleep deprivation effects are criminally underrated. A good night's rest means you actually have the energy for a morning run or a workout, which then gives you the energy to take on pretty much anything, including annoying markets. Dopamine is something you can manage on a daily basis, just like you manage risk in a market, or you can waste it chasing gambles.

I also know that some people have been flirting with the markets for many years without getting anywhere and have invested XXXX amount of hours, but honestly how many of those hours were deep work hours? Sometimes you have to bin all your distractions and focus at the task at hand, because beating the long term efficiency of the market demands it.

[jamesedwards]

So obviously a trading skillset is not a set of instructions like in matched betting, there is no copying here. Which brings me to the original point, that you build this skillset through a growth mindset, and if you don't have one you build this mindset first. They tried to teach this concept to me in school and college but I ironically paid no attention to it!

↑↑↑ 'Tis good, this. ↑↑↑

[sIGNAL]

This is most definitely one of the biggest challenges I've undertook in my life and I'm only 7 months in but won't give in until I crack it.

Indeed. For me the biggest challenge by far, this much was crystal clear a few months in. Before this it was definitely quitting smoking in mid 20s which is usually the first true mental challenge for young adults, I relapsed too many times to remember and it was a mental tug of war at times but in the end I finally kicked and destroyed this disgusting habit.

But good to see a decent trading discussion, not been many of these in recent times compared to previous years, far too many "leechers" and not enough "seeders".

Very happy to give kudos to anyone new that cracks a market in 2024, the entry barrier has probably risen but so did the level of learning material out there. But do remember that when asking someone for advice you are inadvertently asking for a share of their profits, of which there may not be an infinite amount. People generally do want to help but they also don't want to make their trading harder than it needs to be, so it's always a tricky balance overall.

Persisting until you crack it like you say is all well and good, but admittedly one big mistake I made was relying too much on motivation. It's just not sustainable for extended periods of time, because it basically runs on dopamine so it's only temporary, unlike something like discipline. There's quite a bit of science here but in short for those that "lack motivation" I would maybe just bin the whole motivation concept and build discipline and good habits instead.

I've learned that everything basically starts with good sleep, because a tired mind is simply put a lazy mind and sleep deprivation effects are criminally underrated. A good night's rest means you actually have the energy for a morning run or a workout, which then gives you the energy to take on pretty much anything, including annoying markets. Dopamine is something you can manage on a daily basis, just like you manage risk in a market, or you can waste it chasing gambles.

I also know that some people have been flirting with the markets for many years without getting anywhere and have invested XXXX amount of hours, but honestly how many of those hours were deep work hours? Sometimes you have to bin all your distractions and focus at the task at hand, because beating the long term efficiency of the market demands it.

I will second that on smoking as i really found that hard as well. That took me half a dozen attempts and about 10 years to finally kick the habit, i havent smoked now for about 3 years. I also gave up alcohol about 2 years ago when i was diagnosed with my current condition ME/CFS. Alcohol was hard for me as well as i have been a massive drinker since my teens but now it doesnt even bother me at all, Coffee is my weapon of choice now.

So discipline is something I have lots of, and that has only come with age which is helping me alot with learning to trade. My main issue right now is my illness which causes me huge bouts of fatigue on most days. Generally I wake up and am ok until early afternoon when i "Crash". I noticed a few months back when I was trading horses manually that i was doing really well and was profitable up until mid afternoon when it all went wrong and realised it was when I was starting to "crash" which was effecting my decisions and making me slow to react.

So automation now seems to be the way forward for me. most mornings I can get everything in order and setup for the day. try new things out and tinker with the bots. If im feeling ok in the afternoon such as I have today, then I have been trying out some new ideas in play. I think if it wasnt for my condition I would be much further ahead than where i am now, but Im not going to let it beat me and I really want to crack this. I have alot of determination, and I have time on my hands as Im pretty much house bound now and have nothing else to do with my days so learning the markets is keeping me focused and giving me a good challenge.

[Kai]

I think if it wasnt for my condition I would be much further ahead than where i am now, but Im not going to let it beat me and I really want to crack this. I have alot of determination, and I have time on my hands as Im pretty much house bound now and have nothing else to do with my days so learning the markets is keeping me focused and giving me a good challenge.

Brilliant to hear you have your own sense of agency and are embracing these challenges

Coincidentally I talked above about being tired etc without being aware of your condition or ever hearing about it before, so I have learned something new there as well.

I know I briefly touched on a lot of different aspects in the last few posts but I genuinely believe it all plays a role. All we can ever do is try to stack the odds in our favour.

[sIGNAL]

I think if it wasnt for my condition I would be much further ahead than where i am now, but Im not going to let it beat me and I really want to crack this. I have alot of determination, and I have time on my hands as Im pretty much house bound now and have nothing else to do with my days so learning the markets is keeping me focused and giving me a good challenge.

Brilliant to hear you have your own sense of agency and are embracing these challenges

Coincidentally I talked above about being tired etc without being aware of your condition or ever hearing about it before, so I have learned something new there as well.

I know I briefly touched on a lot of different aspects in the last few posts but I genuinely believe it all plays a role. All we can ever do is try to stack the odds in our favour.

I'm hopeful to make a full recovery in the next 12-24 months as my mum had this when she was in her 50s (I'm 44) and she managed to get an off label treatment and made a full recovery (Officially there is no cure for it) so im hoping to get on the same treatment she had later in the year, hence I'm not stressing about anything and have plenty of time to learn to trade without any pressure of anything actually coming of it. If I can't make any money long term then it's no issue. I'm not doing it for the money, this is just keeping my mind occupied, if I can profit then bonus.

Going back to the trading, its funny that I've spent quite a long time trying to master a certain manuovere in running on the horses which when done correctly under the right conditions is profitable, but trying to automate this has been a challenge, but getting back to my point is today I spotted something and did the complete opposite of what I've been doing and I'm thinking this could be when the penny dropped moment as this seems much simpler to achieve with the potential of more profit and less risk than what I've been trying to do.

I knocked up a new bot for it this afternoon and will run it on low stakes for the next week and see if there is any potential with it, but thinking outside the box and doing the opposite of everyone else has been sticking in my mind alot more lately and seems to be where my train of thought is now heading.