How do you invest the money you make?

[megarain]

If a lot of companies fail as a result of this or need cash injections, I am thinking of what small businesses will best bounce back.

I can think of a lot of sectors to swerve .. not so many that stand out.

The banks have been battered .. ask a Barclays/LLoyds shareholder how he feels :

Both around GBP6-8.00 in 2000, now v deep in the red at 90p and 35p. Imagine the bad loans will be pretty hard to swallow.

[PDC]

The banks have been battered .. ask a Barclays/LLoyds shareholder how he feels :

Both around GBP6-8.00 in 2000, now v deep in the red at 90p and 35p. Imagine the bad loans will be pretty hard to swallow.

The advantage of broad based index funds, you don't have to worry about these things. Yes you own the dogs where you might lose 100% of your money in that business but you also own the stars where you make many many 100's of % of your money.

Some (Many) people would have you believe they can consistently over the long term, time the market and pick the winners and avoid the losers and beat the market averages after all costs are taken account of. However, there is a reason Warren Buffett is well known and it isn't because so many people are also able to do what he has done.

[arbitrage16]

based on ongoing market sentiment, i'm sticking with my (personal) opinion from last week (before the big falls), that I would have exited on a stoploss and waited until the markets/ecosystem/social fabric in general had stabalised, rather than continuing to hold while things are falling. I'd (theoretically) wait until it's gone the further 30-40-whoknows% that it will and then buy back in once consolidation begins. you'd still be up on today's (or last week's) prices.

+1

You don't blindly invest each month just because it's the day you invest. You take the market conditions into account … not day to day but by trend. If the market is reasonably stable then carry on as normal but when you see it is in a Bear market you hold back your new money until it seems to have stopped falling and you can buy cheaply.

Please remember to come back and tell us when it seems to have stopped falling and we should start buying at the cheap levels.

Are we still holding off buying into the market, assume so as we haven't yet had the nod to get back in?

Off the lows the markets are:

FTSE100: +19.3%
FTSE250: +32.6%
S&P500: +27.3%
Dow: +30.2%

Damn that dollar cost averaging approach and not trying to time the market, I am glad I ditched it and avoided buying in at the lows as the trend was for it to keep on going down

(P.S. I am not saying it won't fall again and won't fall further than it did before. All I know is that it will either go up, down or stay the same. Though in 20+ years time the markets will more likely than not be higher than they currently are. What stocks will be higher I don't know either, many won't even exist anymore. That is why I don't try to pick the winners and time the market.)

Glad you're highlighting the nonsense of this thread because people, if they listen, can genuinely learn something here. Hell, go a bit further and read a book - Tim Hale Smarter Investing is the one you want.

The current market situation is exactly the example that was required to show that the posters on the other side of the argument are wrong. And not just kind of wrong, but 100% wrong and costing themselves significant chunks of money as a result.

The thinking proposed in the quotes highlighted here is at least 15 years out of date. Those investors will still have a decent pot for their retirement, but it is nothing like what they could have earned if they had availed themselves of the data on investment strategy. Their under-performance should serve as a cautionary tale to the rest of us.

[firlandsfarm]

Are we still holding off buying into the market, assume so as we haven't yet had the nod to get back in?

Are you talking to me? If so I don't know what your ramblings are referring to, I never said I would give anyone a nod. And quite frankly your post demonstrates a lack of understanding of investment management! Have a look around the Internet, there are many websites/pages from people more experienced than me who would be happy to educate you.

[arbitrage16]

Are we still holding off buying into the market, assume so as we haven't yet had the nod to get back in?

Are you talking to me? If so I don't know what your ramblings are referring to, I never said I would give anyone a nod. And quite frankly your post demonstrates a lack of understanding of investment management! Have a look around the Internet, there are many websites/pages from people more experienced than me who would be happy to educate you.

I'd love to learn more about that way of thinking. Could you direct me to some sources you've used to further your understanding of this approach please?

[firlandsfarm]

I'd love to learn more about that way of thinking. Could you direct me to some sources you've used to further your understanding of this approach please?

I suggest you ask Messers Google and Bing.

[arbitrage16]

I'd love to learn more about that way of thinking. Could you direct me to some sources you've used to further your understanding of this approach please?

I suggest you ask Messers Google and Bing.

But I'm asking you, clearly. I can provide names and references - Danny Kahnemann for one - who says that the active investing model is nonsense. I'd like you to provide the same for your 'school' of thinking.

If you're unable to do that, it's clear to all that you're talking the same kind of nonsense.

[firlandsfarm]

The current market situation is exactly the example that was required to show that the posters on the other side of the argument are wrong. And not just kind of wrong, but 100% wrong and costing themselves significant chunks of money as a result.

The thinking proposed in the quotes highlighted here is at least 15 years out of date. Those investors will still have a decent pot for their retirement, but it is nothing like what they could have earned if they had availed themselves of the data on investment strategy. Their under-performance should serve as a cautionary tale to the rest of us.

Well I guess the 100%wrongers will have to bow to the superior knowledge of the Alwaysrighters and always be poorer than them ... there is no way I could compete with such a font of 'rightness'. I'm envious that you are so right you are able to predict that your system will win over a 15 year out of date approach. And I'm happy you have your views I'm sure they help you to feel warm and comfortable at night.

[firlandsfarm]

If you're unable to do that, it's clear to all that you're talking the same kind of nonsense.

so you deem a reluctance to waste time on you as a 'victory'. There's nothing more praiseworthy than self congratulation!! ... I refer you to the answer I gave a few posts ago.

[arbitrage16]

If you're unable to do that, it's clear to all that you're talking the same kind of nonsense.

so you deem a reluctance to waste time on you as a 'victory'. There's nothing more praiseworthy than self congratulation!! ... I refer you to the answer I gave a few posts ago.

Ok, so still no sources then. That's telling. And now you're getting personal - the penultimate refuge of the scoundrel.

And I'll refer you to your previous post, which ended "Clearly we are of differing minds so let's just leave it at that. Bye." And something similar you said to PDC - but you can't leave it alone.

That's because you realise the way you've been doing it your whole life has been wrong, and that's hard to deal with. I'm guessing you're 60+? So knowing that if you actually went into the literature - I recommend Smarter Investing by Tim Hale or Thinking Fast and Slow by Danny Kahnemann amongst many, many others - you'd find out that, like so many others, you've been punked by the financial services indusry into believing that active investing is the way to do it.

They've been sucking you dry for years mate, and you didn't even realise it.

[firlandsfarm]

And I'll refer you to your previous post, which ended "Clearly we are of differing minds so let's just leave it at that. Bye." And something similar you said to PDC - but you can't leave it alone.

That's because you realise the way you've been doing it your whole life has been wrong, and that's hard to deal with. I'm guessing you're 60+? So knowing that if you actually went into the literature - I recommend Smarter Investing by Tim Hale or Thinking Fast and Slow by Danny Kahnemann amongst many, many others - you'd find out that, like so many others, you've been punked by the financial services indusry into believing that active investing is the way to do it.

They've been sucking you dry for years mate, and you didn't even realise it.

I don't see anything personal unless you are admitting the cap fits!
You raised the issue again, not me ... twisted scenarios don't win debates! And I thought I was being polite in correcting you rather than ignore your ramblings.
You have demonstrated your degree of being wrong by not understanding the simple concept I proposed.
I'm certainly not your mate but if you keep looking you may find one one day. I wish you luck, you will need it.
There is one favour I would ask of you, could you put up more challenging debate, this is getting boring.

[Kai]

Speaking of quality forum content, come on guys, could you please take the pissing contest somewhere more private?

It's been a decent thread to follow so far, gained some good insight personally and I'm sure others have as well, it would be a shame if it was ruined with personal insults.

[arbitrage16]

Speaking of quality forum content, come on guys, could you please take the pissing contest somewhere more private?

It's been a decent thread to follow so far, gained some good insight personally and I'm sure others have as well, it would be a shame if it was ruined with personal insults.

With respect, no, as that's not appropriate at this moment. The argument we are having is one that has been playing out for the last 30+ years in the financial services space, and me making an example of this numptie is a useful exercise in demonstrating to others what the issue is.

The debate - active versus passive investing - has been won by the latter camp - it is not possible to consistently outperform the market, so taking a passive approach that tracks the performance of an index allows one to capture the returns of the market. However, the active camp would lose unfathomable $$$ in fees if they were ever to admit to the common investor that they can't make them any more money than a low cost index fund, hence why the debate rages on for some.

You'll notice the other side of the argument, certainly on this forum, has been very light on references and high on low-quality put downs. That should be telling for anyone reading between the lines.

[firlandsfarm]

Speaking of quality forum content, come on guys, could you please take the pissing contest somewhere more private?

It's been a decent thread to follow so far, gained some good insight personally and I'm sure others have as well, it would be a shame if it was ruined with personal insults.

Nice try Kai but as you can see 'he' will never stop but thanks for trying. All I can say is you won't get anymore from me going forward. I tried to bring it to an end weeks ago but 'they' had to reopen it. Anyway my boredom threshold has been reached.

[manrobertkir]

I still hold the money and do not withdraw it from Betfair yet unnecessarily