Have I hit premium charge now?

[ija34]

Well if you are lucky enough to be in the higher tax threshold

You don't get on the high rate through luck but I understand your argument. I'd just rather have a small slice of a lot than all of nothing, I don't have a viable alternative to Betfair so I have to accept their terms.

PC was something I was aware of from day one, so before trying to earn money I thought about how to generate commission, like a form of forward tax planning. The short story is that I generate about 35% a day and therefore don't pay any PC and due to pay very little PC2 soon. But it's not that I don't pay, i've just already paid it daily.

Someone who's extremely successful (nets 7 figures) once told me that if you don't like the net figure the answer is to earn more. Tbh there isn't another option. Gambling is much like any other profession, if you want to net 100 grand then it's difficult and only a very small percantage get there. I think your original 100k net goal was ambitious, I would think most full time manual traders would be on half of that.

I think it mostly depends on how much you are willing to risk on a trade and if you are excellent at reading the markets, knowing what drives them. I was talking about premium charge with my partner earlier and was saying I'll either need to accept less money from trading and keep my day job or I'll simply need to earn more from trading but because of liquidity, you're always limited and I think trading more markets can be a risk because you become tired and lose concentration, etc. Also working a full time job as well makes it much harder to earn more from trading unless you can master automation.

[ShaunWhite]

I think it mostly depends on how much you are willing to risk on a trade

That risk feeling is a sliding scale, when you start out you think a fiver is a lot, eventually you can't get enough on and it means almost nothing. But the large accounts often aren't playing with big stakes, just small amounts done a hundered thousand times a day.

or I'll simply need to earn more from trading .........

Is your house bought and paid for because you ain't getting a mortage even if you're good. And if you rent then being technically unemployed isn't great on the application form if you want to move. Car finance, forget it. And if it all goes tits up, then you got a glaring hole on your CV that says, failed gambler. All on top of the pressure when you have a losing run of weeks and the bills keep arriving.

Decent money and you set your own hours though (albeit a bit samey) so it's ok.

[ija34]

Decent money and you set your own hours though

This is one of the things I don't get about making 1000s of trades a day. Since for decent liquidity you are limited to uk/ire horse racing. Do they just do as much trades as is physically possible on one market. I tried it in practice mode and just confused the shit out of myself and closed for a loss but I suppose I'm not at that level yet.

If I ever made it to that point where I could retire from my job then me and my partner agreed that I would be making enough from it but also have saved an emergency fund that would last us a year, plenty of time to get a new job if it goes tits up. That's way in the future yet anyway. All I wanna do now is make a consistent profit then I can see how much I can make while I'm still working.

[ShaunWhite]

All I wanna do now is make a consistent profit then I can see how much I can make while I'm still working.

I think most would say just pick one thing, or even one small part of a thing and focus on being the best at it. There's literally 100s of styles and techniques and you'll tear yourself apart if you're flitting from one thing to another trying to find the easy one. Nothing is easy and everything is equally difficult so find something you think will hold your interest or suit your skills and focus on that.

[Emmson]

Is your house bought and paid for because you ain't getting a mortage even if you're good.

Are we certain of that Shaun?

I read that and immediately (because I have an above average memory ) remembered a years old thread and a post from Dallas on that subject.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18115&p=177866&hili ... ge#p177866

[Naffman]

Is your house bought and paid for because you ain't getting a mortage even if you're good.

Are we certain of that Shaun?

I read that and immediately (because I have an above average memory ) remembered a years old thread and a post from Dallas on that subject.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18115&p=177866&hili ... ge#p177866

I just recently tried and they definitely don't let you have a mortgage. It's all about taxable income.

[Kai]

If traders have to depend on mortgages like everyone else or live paycheck to paycheck what is even the point

[ija34]

So if you work full time and Trade then they would only take the income from your job into account even if you are on £75k+ a year from trading and working? I'd probably just save trading money for a few years, put down a huge deposit then use my salary for the remaining mortgage.

[Naffman]

So if you work full time and Trade then they would only take the income from your job into account even if you are on £75k+ a year from trading and working? I'd probably just save trading money for a few years, put down a huge deposit then use my salary for the remaining mortgage.

That'd be the way to do it, and try to limit what you deposit too as banks don't like that either.

[Shaung89]

Is there any absolute answer on how the Higher Rate threshold is calculated? Recently hit £100k Gross PnL so have half an eye on it for the future but from reading this thread it's not as simple as just saying '£250k'?

[Euler]

Is there any absolute answer on how the Higher Rate threshold is calculated? Recently hit £100k Gross PnL so have half an eye on it for the future but from reading this thread it's not as simple as just saying '£250k'?

It isn't.

The £250k limit only comes in if your commission is really low. What's your commission generated number? Do you know it?

[jamesedwards]

Is there any absolute answer on how the Higher Rate threshold is calculated? Recently hit £100k Gross PnL so have half an eye on it for the future but from reading this thread it's not as simple as just saying '£250k'?

The £250k is net profit rather than gross so you can be well into £300k+ gross before you hit PC2.

The PC2 tier is paid based on your lifetime [commission generated] as a % of [gross profits];
<5% = 60% PC payable
5%-10% = 50% PC payable
10%-40% = 40% PC payable.
Note that 'commission generated' is NOT the same as commission paid. 'Commission generated' = (half of commission actually paid from winning markets) + (1.5% of losses from losing markets)

The amount of PC2 paid is equal to ([weekly gross profit] X [PC2%]) - [weekly commission generated].
eg £1000 total gross profit @ 40% PC2 tier with £50 total commission generated
PC2 payable would be (£1000 X 40%) - £50 = £350

[Shaung89]

Is there any absolute answer on how the Higher Rate threshold is calculated? Recently hit £100k Gross PnL so have half an eye on it for the future but from reading this thread it's not as simple as just saying '£250k'?

It isn't.

The £250k limit only comes in if your commission is really low. What's your commission generated number? Do you know it?

PnL Nov'24.jpg

[jamesedwards]

Is there any absolute answer on how the Higher Rate threshold is calculated? Recently hit £100k Gross PnL so have half an eye on it for the future but from reading this thread it's not as simple as just saying '£250k'?

It isn't.

The £250k limit only comes in if your commission is really low. What's your commission generated number? Do you know it?

PnL Nov'24.jpg

Your lifetime commission rate is (3658.54/100696.84) = 3.6%.

If you reach £250k lifetime net profit with a comm rate that low then you'd be paying the top whack 60% PC2.

Your commission rate last week was (8.63/596.74) = 1.45%. If this is typical then your lifetime comm rate is heading in the wrong direction.

If you expect to breach the £250k net profit threshold then you could start working now to churn more commission to try and increase your comm rate while you still have time to affect your lifetime figure. But, be aware there are rumours that Betfair might change the way PC2 works at some point in the future.

[tryingtotrade]

You don’t seem to be losing much, 3,5% generated is really low!