lets move to Betdaq

[Euler]

That's better than it was a few years ago but still pretty small. It will be interesting to see how it changes. We noted that volume on Irish races had a better share than on Betfair and that seems to be reflected in these figures also.

[andyfuller]

So assuming I haven't screwed up my database queries Betfair are matching about 10 times Betdaq volume in yesterday's races.

As far as my knowledge goes you have done it correctly. Thanks for doing it as that is the first time I have seen such a detailed comparison.

Perhaps Peter could give us a weeks worth of data at some point and perhaps do a posting with it once a week? Assuming it isn't a lot of work?

I really need to learn excel and how to do this kind of stuff!

[xitian]

Well I was only able to calculate those figures because I was lucky enough to already be gathering matched amounts each second on Betfair. The matched price is only an estimate though (lastMatchedPrice) since within that second, although I know an extra £1000 was matched, it might have been 2 bets at different prices, and I'll only be multiplying with the last price. I imagine it won't make a huge difference to the final numbers though.

Now that I have my database set up properly and a spreadsheet created it should only take me a few mins to reproduce numbers for any particular day. A week at a time is a bit tough as there's huge amounts of data. Perhaps Peter has his database in an easier format to digest though?

It'll be interesting to see what happens next Monday, which is when I'll post the next set of figures.

[Euler]

I think you are ahead of the curve on this one, so no point in duplicating effort if you are willing to post up some figures.

[wjwskill]

Does anyone have data on in-play footy? We're operating at about £500-2000 per bet on four markets (MO, +/-1.5 gls, +/- 2.5 gls and +/- 3.5 gls). Are we likely to get match on most in play matches? We are active in 45ish leagues per year.

[Euler]

We have been talking to Betdaq to get some historical data out there so people know where they stand. We should have some data before long.

[xitian]

After today's crash, I thought it'd be interesting to run some numbers again. Unfortunately I was a bit of an idiot and wiped my database from before the crash when I restarted my data gathering system when Betfair came back online, therefore I don't have the matched data info to convert Betfair numbers into Betdaq equivalents for the earlier races.

4th column is Befair matched volume in the last 10 mins to start time in Betfair method.
5th column is Befair matched volume but converted to Betdaq equivalents. (Don't have numbers before the crash I'm afraid)
6th column is Betdaq matched volume in the last 10 mins to start.
Last column is Betdaq percentage to Betfair.

Code: Select all

BF_ID	Track	Start	BF	BF_BD	BD	%
103262748	Ripon	13:40:00	417,105	#N/A	187,850	#N/A
103262224	Newb	13:45:00	384,943	#N/A	113,762	#N/A
103261898	Newm	14:00:00	581,403	#N/A	110,961	#N/A
103270470	MrktR	14:05:00	217,997	#N/A	152,674	#N/A
103270455	Curr	14:10:00	107,197	#N/A	47,581	#N/A
103262752	Ripon	14:15:00	301,070	#N/A	119,163	#N/A
103262226	Newb	14:20:00	397,162	#N/A	162,261	#N/A
103261900	Newm	14:35:00	912,452	#N/A	204,992	#N/A
103270457	Curr	14:40:00	76,992	#N/A	41,520	#N/A
103270472	MrktR	14:40:00	130,240	#N/A	89,146	#N/A
103262755	Ripon	14:50:00	370,615	#N/A	134,093	#N/A
103262228	Newb	14:55:00	612,122	#N/A	274,979	#N/A
103270459	Curr	15:10:00	91,498	#N/A	46,669	#N/A
103261902	Newm	15:10:00	407,793	#N/A	261,869	#N/A
103270474	MrktR	15:15:00	187,510	#N/A	128,251	#N/A
103262757	Ripon	15:25:00	379,478	#N/A	145,201	#N/A
103270461	Curr	15:40:00	279,384	#N/A	74,239	#N/A
103261904	Newm	15:40:00	199,684	#N/A	86,347	#N/A
103270476	MrktR	15:45:00	56,022	#N/A	106,419	#N/A
103262760	Ripon	15:55:00	#N/A	#N/A	88,514	#N/A
103262232	Newb	16:05:00	#N/A	#N/A	190,243	#N/A
103270463	Curr	16:10:00	#N/A	#N/A	99,179	#N/A
103261906	Newm	16:15:00	108,480	291,812	112,333	38%
103270478	MrktR	16:20:00	332,461	780,073	145,051	19%
103262763	Ripon	16:30:00	365,684	1,412,523	182,545	13%
103262234	Newb	16:35:00	478,761	750,041	95,380	13%
103270465	Curr	16:40:00	94,494	617,625	79,092	13%
103261908	Newm	16:45:00	562,106	1,479,286	177,531	12%
103270480	MrktR	16:55:00	572,490	1,289,034	127,304	10%
103262766	Ripon	17:05:00	243,579	1,205,342	128,712	11%
103270467	Curr	17:10:00	60,981	252,563	52,633	21%
103262236	Newb	17:10:00	351,520	1,170,343	230,004	20%
103261910	Newm	17:20:00	405,872	1,259,961	145,280	12%
103270482	MrktR	17:30:00	359,032	1,056,745	104,041	10%
103262769	Ripon	17:40:00	352,398	1,529,394	168,911	11%
103262013	Ling	18:25:00	246,219	841,334	81,568	10%
103261992	Hayd	18:40:00	333,196	986,139	99,710	10%
103262015	Ling	18:55:00	306,288	1,285,719	134,246	10%
103261994	Hayd	19:10:00	354,856	1,129,638	186,846	17%
103262017	Ling	19:25:00	415,590	1,191,102	177,870	15%
103261996	Hayd	19:40:00	231,191	1,063,231	123,379	12%
103262019	Ling	19:55:00	358,718	909,922	94,262	10%
103261998	Hayd	20:10:00	434,356	1,016,555	108,387	11%
103262021	Ling	20:25:00	395,122	931,800	69,736	7%
103262000	Hayd	20:40:00	285,982	916,479	121,155	13%
103262023	Ling	20:55:00	422,251	1,566,905	128,037	8%
103262002	Hayd	21:10:00	522,054	1,232,150	162,379	13%

I does look as though in some races Betdaq has increased volume, however it's no where near as significant as I was expecting. In fact total matched on Betdaq is almost exactly the same as yesterday (6.10 million yesterday vs 6.11 million today).

[aligammack]

Yesterday I used Betdaq for the first time.

As an international trader I always have a slight disadvantage with response times but with Betdaq the response times were even worse compared to Betfair. It was running about 4 or 5 times slower which made it almost impossible to trade.

Anybody else notice this big difference?

[Iron]

Hi Xitian

To clarify, do the percentage figures compare Betdaq and Betfair's volumes traded on a 'like for like' basis?

Thanks

Jeff

After today's crash, I thought it'd be interesting to run some numbers again.

[xitian]

Hi Jeff,

Yes, the percentage I calculated was like for like using Betdaq's method of calculation.

Historical average has been about 10%, but I've only had data for a few days.

Regards,
James

[andyfuller]

It will be interesting to see how they compare today and the rest of the week.

Thanks for posting your data, much appreciated!

[andyfuller]

Really could do with the calls speeding up - it feels like an age to see if you have cancelled or been matched.

[xitian]

Summary of the afternoon races compared to last Monday:

1st column is Betfair total matched in last 10 mins.
2nd column is Betfair total converted to Betdaq method.
3rd column is Betdaq total matched in last 10 mins.

Code: Select all

BF	BF_BD	BD
11/07/2011	7,078,461	19,640,424	1,549,953
18/07/2011	4,214,233	16,673,976	2,718,445
% ratio	60%	85%	175%

That's a total added up across all the races. There were 15 last Monday and 14 today. I'll post more detailed numbers later when the evening races complete.

Of course how this translates into what Betfair take in commission is another question, as matched amounts aren't really a reflection of people's final pnl for a race.

I guess it's encouraging to see that there's a significant movement of activity though.

[xitian]

Ah, forgot to mention that in-play volume is around 78% of what it was last Monday.

Unfortunately I missed those delayed Yarmouth races as they started too late and my program skipped the race. So that 78% excludes those races in the calculation.

I'm not collecting in-play data on Betdaq yet.

[Iron]

Hi Xitian

Do you know off hand how many races were included in today's figures and last Monday's figures?

That might help us to see what's happened in regard to the average figures per race.

Thanks

Jeff