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Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Is there a delay of a second or two that prevents him from trading in real-time at Elite Bet?

Do racecourses generally allow in-play betting? I've heard about it being banned at at least one racetrack.

Jeff
JollyGreen wrote:I heard that Ming had stopped trading IR at Elite Bet. That is unconfirmed but I have a couple of friends that live near Elite and another who visits regularly. The word is he now trades direct from the course.
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JollyGreen
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Jeff

I tried the IR game at the track about 4 years ago. At the time I was laughed at by most "old school" punters who said it couldn't be done. I was asked to stop doing it by course stewards on numerous occasions but they never ejected me from the course. It is a tricky thing to do and now it is big business.

I worked in RF communications about 30 years ago so I knew about the delays. The following figures are just general and they may have changed.

On course = 0s delay
Turf TV = ~2s delay
SiS = ~3s delay
RUK = ~4s delay
ATR = ~6s delay

This is from 4 years ago but I would not expect too much of a change. If you get BBC or C4 via an aerial then it falls around the 1s mark but these days it is digital for most people and that may add a delay, one that I have not measured.


In the early days I tried to book a box from where I could trade from. Sadly it was frowned upon and they would not allow it. I used a bluetooth earpiece and gave info to someone sat in front of a PC. It works but the person at the track must be able to race read and recognise the correct horse. The person in front of the PC must be competent and there must be 100% trust between the two.

These days people buy up boxes for the year and then rent them out to IR punters. The courses need the money so it is my personal view they turn a blind eye to it. The general view is that it's illegal to "take revenue off course". I can remember the time when you couldn't use a mobile phone in the betting ring!
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PeterLe
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:19 pm

Hi JG
I think it is still possible to trade from the track and make money.
Over the years I have collected enough data to know which tracks are probably hosting on track punters (for example, Today I wont trade in running at Carl & Goodwood), all others are OK.

An Ipad, will fit over a folder paper and would be quite hard to see I would have thought? ..and one press of a button and it could like your reading your email
Its like everything else in life, once the masses get hold of an idea, it becomes harder and harder to exploit an idea.

Regards
Peter
PS Just Thinking about it, I was at York some time ago on a works jolly, we had a private suite and we all had laptops (wasn't trading) but nobody said anything??
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JollyGreen
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PeterLe wrote:Hi JG
PS Just Thinking about it, I was at York some time ago on a works jolly, we had a private suite and we all had laptops (wasn't trading) but nobody said anything??
That is how you get around it, you say it is a business perk but they need access to e-mail etc. It allows the courses to turn a blind eye.
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superfrank
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It's a shame that he stopped updating his blog http://elitebet.blogspot.com/.

He told me he was making 250k a year from in-play. Maybe the on-course people took away his edge at certain tracks.

Back to the original question and it looks like an ATR alternative is a non-starter. I'm hoping that as technology improves, delays will be reduced to near-zero and they'll be a level playing field for trading in-running. There are only a few in-running angles I trade atm, and I could do those without pictures, but it would be nice to do more.

btw, Ming didn't believe that anyone could make the kind of money Adam Heathcote did from pre-race - he said he made up his P&Ls!!
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JollyGreen
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superfrank wrote: btw, Ming didn't believe that anyone could make the kind of money Adam Heathcote did from pre-race - he said he made up his P&Ls!!
Well he's wrong I can assure you of that.
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superfrank
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You are AH and I claim my £5!!

I don't think anyone seriously doubts the money he made/is making. Smart kid and the confidence of youth.
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JollyGreen
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superfrank wrote:You are AH and I claim my £5!!

I don't think anyone seriously doubts the money he made/is making. Smart kid and the confidence of youth.
A quick funny story.

Some people were convinced that I was AH and AH was me. Another forum went so far to supposedly prove this that it became ludicrous. They claimed they had forensically analysed the screen shots he gave and they showed scratches on the screen that matched exactly with the screen shots I had posted LMAO :lol:

If you take a screen shot, it electronically "grabs" the output from the graphics card so the alleged scratches would not be copied. I even told them to choose part of the screen, turn off the monitor and then grab the shot.....eureka, the picture was there even though the screen was blank.

I also told them to write "Twats" on their screen using a dry board marker and see if it came out...it didn't but they are!!
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superfrank
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that's comedy!
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PeterLe
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I can guarantee JG isn't Adam! :D
..but I do wonder if Adam has a userid on here!
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jimrobo
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He was there trading in January when I did an afternoon there. Seemed friendly and asked if i was ok with everything. He was talking about going to one of the tracks with the other guys that were there.

Personally I didn't find their internet that fast.
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Innertube
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http://elitebet.blogspot.com/

His blog only lasted two months and his P&L was all over the place. :?
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LeTiss
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His P+L screenshots are interesting

It just shows that some people are not bothered about trading, they are there to bet.

I think the same applies to football BF users - with markets so often near 100%, having somekind of betting strategy is probably as effective as most people's trading exploits
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Iron
Posts: 6793
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:51 pm

How would you go about finding instances where the market had price up a game wrongly?

Jeff
LeTiss 4pm wrote: I think the same applies to football BF users - with markets so often near 100%, having somekind of betting strategy is probably as effective as most people's trading exploits
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superfrank
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LeTiss 4pm wrote:His P+L screenshots are interesting

It just shows that some people are not bothered about trading, they are there to bet.

I think the same applies to football BF users - with markets so often near 100%, having somekind of betting strategy is probably as effective as most people's trading exploits
It's just a different strategy - assuming he has an edge then over time he will be ahead given a large enough sample size.
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