I still think, despite the critics, Mourinho is the best couch around. He managed to beat Barcelona in the champions league semifinal in 2010 with Inter Milan. He won the champions league one game after. He won the copa del re the year after with real madrid. The result was Barcelona vs Real Madrid 0-1. Tonight he went 7 points clear to Barcelona to win la LIGA. The only threat for Real Madrid from now to the end will be Athelic Bilbao. I think the LIGA is secured in favor of Real Madrid. Let's speak about the Champions league. For you guys what's most difficult, 2-1 ( bayern munich vs Real Madrid) or 1-0 ( Chelsea vs Barcelona), here I think Mr Mourinho is still ahead vs Barcelona.
No1 can deny that Barcelona is the best team in the world but, critics have certainly must change their mind about Mr Mourinho which is the best manager ( coach) around. Denying what Mr Mourinho achieved tonight will be just nonsense.
Enzabella..
Mourinho vs Barcelona
I think even the Special One would admit that Sir Alex's achievements are greater than his.enzabella2009 wrote:I still think, despite the critics, Mourinho is the best couch around.
In terms of the greatest manager ever though, that accolade possibly has to go to Brian Clough. In 1974, when Clough joined Nottingham Forest, they were in the Second Division. In 1979 and 1980, they won the European Cup under Clough's management. In modern terms, that's like a manager joining Preston North End this year and winning the Champions League in two successive years in a few years' time, without massive investment by some multi-billionaire.
Jeff
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enzabella2009
- Posts: 747
- Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:58 pm
Hi Jeff,
we are talking about present. Not the past.
Sir Alex fergusson is a very special coach but, he only won the champions league because of Luck. Is it that difficult for Man utd supporters to admit that? The 98 event could be paid 1000/1 on the 96' minute of the game. The 2008 event was won only because of John Terry banana mistake. I think Man Utd fans have a real problem admitting to their own luck. Am I asking why is that? The answear is very easy, Love is Blind. I am Italian Jeff, I am judging facts with a fair and balanced opinion. It's the same person that after 2 years of living in Italy admit that you guys were right about match fixing and about Italians. How can you guys not admit and face that Man Utd was purely lucky to achieve what they achieved. Mourihno is not lucky if he won he certainly deserved to win. If mourinho was Man utd manager for 10 years, he would have played 6 champions league finals and probably lost on 1 or maybe 2. Man Utd was always a better team compare to Chelsea so immagine Sir Alex coaching Chelsea and Mourinho coaching Man utd for the last decade. I am not trying to change your opinion but please lets anilize things with a fair point of view and balanced opinion.
Mourihno born in 1963
Porto (2002–2004)
Primeira Liga (2): 2002–03, 2003–04
Taça de Portugal (1): 2002–03
Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira (1): 2003
UEFA Champions League (1): 2003–04
UEFA Cup (1): 2002–03
Chelsea (2004–2007)
Premier League (2): 2004–05, 2005–06
FA Cup (1): 2006–07
Football League Cup (2): 2004–05, 2006–07
FA Community Shield (1): 2005
Internazionale (2008–2010)
Serie A (2): 2008–09, 2009–10
Coppa Italia (1): 2009–10
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2008
UEFA Champions League (1): 2009–10
Real Madrid (2010–)
Copa del Rey (1): 2010–11
In four different Nations. With la Liga 2012 and a possible champions league final to come.
Sir Alex Fergusson born in 1941.
Scotland and England
St. Mirren
Scottish First Division (1): 1976–77
Aberdeen
Scottish Premier Division (3): 1979–80, 1983–84, 1984–85
Scottish Cup (4): 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1985–86
Scottish League Cup (1): 1985–86
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1982–83
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1983
Manchester United[105]
Premier League (12): 1992–93, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2010–11
FA Cup (5): 1989–90, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1998–99, 2003–04
League Cup (4): 1991–92, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10
FA Charity/Community Shield (10): 1990 (shared), 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011
UEFA Champions League (2): 1998–99, 2007–08
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1990–91
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1991
Intercontinental Cup (1): 1999
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008
Camon Jeff Mourinho in 20 years will achieve much more then Fergusson and in all major leagues in Europe...He is the special ONE.
we are talking about present. Not the past.
Sir Alex fergusson is a very special coach but, he only won the champions league because of Luck. Is it that difficult for Man utd supporters to admit that? The 98 event could be paid 1000/1 on the 96' minute of the game. The 2008 event was won only because of John Terry banana mistake. I think Man Utd fans have a real problem admitting to their own luck. Am I asking why is that? The answear is very easy, Love is Blind. I am Italian Jeff, I am judging facts with a fair and balanced opinion. It's the same person that after 2 years of living in Italy admit that you guys were right about match fixing and about Italians. How can you guys not admit and face that Man Utd was purely lucky to achieve what they achieved. Mourihno is not lucky if he won he certainly deserved to win. If mourinho was Man utd manager for 10 years, he would have played 6 champions league finals and probably lost on 1 or maybe 2. Man Utd was always a better team compare to Chelsea so immagine Sir Alex coaching Chelsea and Mourinho coaching Man utd for the last decade. I am not trying to change your opinion but please lets anilize things with a fair point of view and balanced opinion.
Mourihno born in 1963
Porto (2002–2004)
Primeira Liga (2): 2002–03, 2003–04
Taça de Portugal (1): 2002–03
Supertaça Cândido de Oliveira (1): 2003
UEFA Champions League (1): 2003–04
UEFA Cup (1): 2002–03
Chelsea (2004–2007)
Premier League (2): 2004–05, 2005–06
FA Cup (1): 2006–07
Football League Cup (2): 2004–05, 2006–07
FA Community Shield (1): 2005
Internazionale (2008–2010)
Serie A (2): 2008–09, 2009–10
Coppa Italia (1): 2009–10
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2008
UEFA Champions League (1): 2009–10
Real Madrid (2010–)
Copa del Rey (1): 2010–11
In four different Nations. With la Liga 2012 and a possible champions league final to come.
Sir Alex Fergusson born in 1941.
Scotland and England
St. Mirren
Scottish First Division (1): 1976–77
Aberdeen
Scottish Premier Division (3): 1979–80, 1983–84, 1984–85
Scottish Cup (4): 1981–82, 1982–83, 1983–84, 1985–86
Scottish League Cup (1): 1985–86
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1982–83
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1983
Manchester United[105]
Premier League (12): 1992–93, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2010–11
FA Cup (5): 1989–90, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1998–99, 2003–04
League Cup (4): 1991–92, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10
FA Charity/Community Shield (10): 1990 (shared), 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011
UEFA Champions League (2): 1998–99, 2007–08
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (1): 1990–91
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1991
Intercontinental Cup (1): 1999
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008
Camon Jeff Mourinho in 20 years will achieve much more then Fergusson and in all major leagues in Europe...He is the special ONE.
You always need luck to win a major trophy. People just notice luck more when it comes in the dying seconds of a game, but a bad referee decision mid-game in a qualifier can also make all the difference...enzabella2009 wrote:Hi Jeff,
we are talking about present. Not the past.
Sir Alex fergusson is a very special coach but, he only won the champions league because of Luck.
To win the CL, you need to have so many things go your way that the end result can be put down to skill as much as luck... Ditto with Liverpool when they won the CL.
Stef - The Italians are a very passionate people, and you are no exception!enzabella2009 wrote:I am Italian Jeff, I am judging facts with a fair and balanced opinion.
That passion is a great thing, but it doesn't always lead to fair and balanced opinions! 
Aberdeen were nowhere when Sir Alex took them on. Not only did he win a host of trophys in Scotland, he also won the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup and the UEFA Super Cup. Those are fantastic achievements by any standard...enzabella2009 wrote:I am not trying to change your opinion but please lets anilize things with a fair point of view and balanced opinion.
And he hasn't done too badly at Man U either!
Jeff
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enzabella2009
- Posts: 747
- Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:58 pm
Liverpool and Man Utd have never dominated their finals. Real Madrid, Barcelona, Intern Milan, Ac Milan have dominated most of their finals. With the expection of Liverpool vs Ac Milan 1-2, Real Madrid vs Juventus 1-0 and Ac Milan vs Juventus ended on penaltys and remembered as one of the most boring final of all time.
If Chelsea won the 2008 event, I could remember of an English team which dominated the final but, unfortunaly John Terry failed to score on the most important moment of his sport life..
I know you are going to disagree. You speak about passionate but, I never mention Juventus which is the Team I support since I was a little girl, but everytime we speak about football, you mention Man Utd, their players or their coach as the best around. So who is the most passionate here? Me, I speak about every leagues or teams, or you, that only speak about Man Utd as the best team, coach and players of all time.
If Chelsea won the 2008 event, I could remember of an English team which dominated the final but, unfortunaly John Terry failed to score on the most important moment of his sport life..
I know you are going to disagree. You speak about passionate but, I never mention Juventus which is the Team I support since I was a little girl, but everytime we speak about football, you mention Man Utd, their players or their coach as the best around. So who is the most passionate here? Me, I speak about every leagues or teams, or you, that only speak about Man Utd as the best team, coach and players of all time.
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CaerMyrddin
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 am
Hi Enzabella, imho you should't diminish an european campaign just because a club got lucky in the final - but I have to agree with you, Mourinho is the best. He will be the first to win in four separate countries championships of the top 6 and should he win the CL with Real Madrid or any other club, he will be the first manager ever to win 3 CL.
Jeff, those were days wen football was completetly different. Impossible to achieve in these days imho, but it was a major thing to do, of course.that accolade possibly has to go to Brian Clough. In 1974
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
Fergie is a good manager but imho his achievements at Aberdeen were the greater.
Man U are the biggest and richest club in the country and would have been expected to win loads of trophies in the modern era (when money is far more correlated to success than it was in the past).
He benefited from a golden generation of home grown players and has always been able to spend to bring in the best players from other clubs (e.g. Rooney) which not only strengthens his hand but weakens the competition. Man Utd's achievements in Europe are not that great, and, as said earlier, they had massive slices of luck to win both CL finals in which they were the poorer team.
Ferguson has managed to intimidate referees in this country into getting consistently favourable treatment for his team - he can't manage that in Europe.
Man U are the biggest and richest club in the country and would have been expected to win loads of trophies in the modern era (when money is far more correlated to success than it was in the past).
He benefited from a golden generation of home grown players and has always been able to spend to bring in the best players from other clubs (e.g. Rooney) which not only strengthens his hand but weakens the competition. Man Utd's achievements in Europe are not that great, and, as said earlier, they had massive slices of luck to win both CL finals in which they were the poorer team.
Ferguson has managed to intimidate referees in this country into getting consistently favourable treatment for his team - he can't manage that in Europe.
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enzabella2009
- Posts: 747
- Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:58 pm
You are right, I should not dimish an european campaign just because a club got lucky in the final but, when some clubs (barcelona,real madrid,ac Milan) or Mourinho with any clubs, play the final, you just know who is going to dominate the final. With English clubs it' s always uncertain. It's a fact.CaerMyrddin wrote:Hi Enzabella, imho you should't diminish an european campaign just because a club got lucky in the final - but I have to agree with you, Mourinho is the best. He will be the first to win in four separate countries championships of the top 6 and should he win the CL with Real Madrid or any other club, he will be the first manager ever to win 3 CL.
Jeff, those were days wen football was completetly different. Impossible to achieve in these days imho, but it was a major thing to do, of course.that accolade possibly has to go to Brian Clough. In 1974
I think Man Utd supporters should strongly hope that Mr Mourinho will take the la LIGa and the champions league for Real Madrid so they can sign him in 2014 to replace Mr Fergusson. I can't even immagine how many trophys mourinho will win for Man Utd if the rumors are real and not just rumors
By what measure?superfrank wrote:Fergie is a good manager but imho his achievements at Aberdeen were the greater.
Not sure what you mean by biggest, but they aren't the richest. Surely you accept that?superfrank wrote:Man U are the biggest and richest club in the country
So how do you explain the fact that we have done far better than Chelsea and City per pound spent in recent years?superfrank wrote:and would have been expected to win loads of trophies in the modern era (when money is far more correlated to success than it was in the past).
Other clubs have academies. Maybe Fergie was lucky that a bunch of talented young players emerged from the academy. Or maybe his ability to select and nurture players had something to do with it...superfrank wrote:He benefited from a golden generation of home grown players
Can you think of a team in the history of football that won a major trophy without luck? You're either lucky to beat a superior team, or lucky to face inferior opposition...superfrank wrote: as said earlier, they had massive slices of luck to win both CL finals in which they were the poorer team.
Are you aware that the stats show that that's an urban myth? If not, perhaps you'd care to read this article and then retract that comment?superfrank wrote:Ferguson has managed to intimidate referees in this country into getting consistently favourable treatment for his team - he can't manage that in Europe.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17562451 *Hands Frank a slice of humble pie*Jeff
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
over the last 20 years Man U have been consistently the richest club (richest in the world for many years).
Chelsea have won loads of trophies in recent years. Man City have only recently had the cash and it sometimes takes time until that translates into silverware (and i said correlation, not guarantee).
it's not just penalties, Man U get the key decisions when they really need them (and extra added time when required).
i don't like Ferguson as a man. he's surly and childish (his decision to refuse to speak to the BBC for years because he didn't like something they said spoke volumes). if he wanted to be considered a great manager he'd have gone to Europe to test himself there, but he didn't have the balls.
Chelsea have won loads of trophies in recent years. Man City have only recently had the cash and it sometimes takes time until that translates into silverware (and i said correlation, not guarantee).
it's not just penalties, Man U get the key decisions when they really need them (and extra added time when required).
i don't like Ferguson as a man. he's surly and childish (his decision to refuse to speak to the BBC for years because he didn't like something they said spoke volumes). if he wanted to be considered a great manager he'd have gone to Europe to test himself there, but he didn't have the balls.
Where's your evidence for this?superfrank wrote: it's not just penalties, Man U get the key decisions when they really need them (and extra added time when required).
And do you accept that the article I posted a link to casts considerable doubt upon your previous claim re. Man U and referees?
To a point, but great leaders generally have a demon or two lurking inside them IMHO...superfrank wrote:i don't like Ferguson as a man. he's surly and childish
'Didn't like something they said'. They basically accused him of being corrupt!superfrank wrote:(his decision to refuse to speak to the BBC for years because he didn't like something they said spoke volumes).
If you were a victim of the bias for which the BBC is notorious, I don't think you'd do them any favours anytime soon!
As opposed to managing the top team in what many people consider to be the top league in the world?superfrank wrote:if he wanted to be considered a great manager he'd have gone to Europe to test himself there, but he didn't have the balls.
He more than proved at Aberdeen that he's capable of achieving great things without lots of money behind him. Ditto in recent years at United - we are about to win the Premiership, ahead of two teams who have probably spent at least twice as much as us on their squads...
Jeff
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
Bobby Robson was a great manger and a great man.
he did fantastic jobs at all his clubs and was so unlucky not to take an average England side to the World Cup final in 1990.
he did fantastic jobs at all his clubs and was so unlucky not to take an average England side to the World Cup final in 1990.
Robson was a nice guy, if that's what you mean by a great man. But many people would say the same of Fergie, despite his temper. Many of the players see him as like a second dad...
BTW, it's interesting that you didn't answer my question re. Man U and referees!
Jeff
BTW, it's interesting that you didn't answer my question re. Man U and referees!
Jeff
superfrank wrote:Bobby Robson was a great manger and a great man.
he did fantastic jobs at all his clubs and was so unlucky not to take an average England side to the World Cup final in 1990.
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
you can't prove or disprove the bias using some arbitrary penalty stats, and refereeing decisions are not black and white.Ferru123 wrote:BTW, it's interesting that you didn't answer my question re. Man U and referees!
why is the accusation of bias towards Man U so consistent and from so many? because we've all seen it too many times for it to be coincidence. no smoke without fire. refs are scared of Fergie, and it shows.