Smarkets begins closing successful accounts

[freddy]

Having seen his account James19 is not a trader, but an arber, and he's using 'OddsTrawler Pro' to get his arbs.

I Don't think he's an Arber,
not by my definition of the word anyway.

He's said he uses a model to find value and then greens up when the odds realign,
Smarkets confirmed this by telling him not to green up against the market makers.

SO to me he's just a trader that exploits short term value, like alot of us on here do .

I myself use models to help in my trading sometimes
and yes im sure it could be said that some of the out of line prices were also by coincidence arbs too, but most are not.

It's a dangerous precedent to set on what is a very gray area. AS All winners win by getting value of some sort.

[spreadbetting]

Interesting to see that despite all the publicity james has given the issue, not one other person has come forward to complain.

I'd imagine that's more an indication of how popular smarkets is more than anything else

Not sure what difference it makes if James is an arber or not tbh like, Freddy says we're all looking to pick off value from someone or other. Whether we close out at the same place or not is pretty much irrelevant. The fact smarkets are getting involved on behalf of their 'market makers' and closing or warning off profitable accounts is the main issue.

[james19]

Another user on SBR claims that he bet on a soccer match and smarkets voided his bet stating that the layer had made a mistake....

http://forum.sbrforum.com/sportsbooks-i ... ounts.html

Anyway I'm stunned that Smarkets management have not stepped in to clear up this PR disaster as a matter of urgency.

They claim winners are welcome, and all the while i'm refused the right play on their site, and am forced to ply my trade on betfair (which I don't really mind, but it's the principle, as well as the lies that get my goat).

Anyway this matter will not go away until it is resolved so the Smarkets CEO would do well to liaise with me sooner rather than later. In the mean time there are two external investigations ongoing.

If I don't get any sense from the LGA then i'll write to the Culture Secretary, the Office of Fair Trading, and Trading standards.

My 16 year old cousin, currently taking part in the young enterprise scheme, could probably have managed this whole situation better IMHO

[Iron]

There may well be more to this than meets the eye, but on the face of it, it's scandalous.

Surely the fundamental principle of an exchange is that, once a bet is made, it's made, whether your bot malfunctioned or your five year old was playing with the mouse and submitted a bet without your knowledge...

Jeff

Another user on SBR claims that he bet on a soccer match and smarkets voided his bet stating that the layer had made a mistake....

[Iron]

It's interesting that Smarkets has been remarkably quiet in this thread.

If it were my company, I'd be vigorously defending myself (unless I were in the wrong, in which case I might stop digging)...

Jeff

[Boing]

James, you didn't deny you were an arber, so we can assume you are then by the look of it. So it's not really surprising to see a company who has to provide liquidity stopping people from picking off prices. There is nothing weird about that really is there?

I don't see this as a PR disaster for smarkets, you have one individual who has obviously threatened to cause a stink if he was denied a chance to pick off a counter-party, trying to create as much negative publicity as possible during a time of the year when smarkets probably don't have the ability to respond. Tis the season of goodwill.

It's a PR win for Betfair though who can do what they like and get away with it. Shame you don't have as much vigor for Betfair who have taken so much money off their customers with one shocking decision after another.

I hadn't really been interested in smarkets but signed up anyway after reading this thread. I seriously doubt they will turn away good business.

[Boing]

Hmm, that sounds a bit harsh, but I'm hoping people see my point? The thread title is misleading as well?

[Iron]

Boing -

Not at all - it's good to hear an alternative perspective.

I see your point, but it sounds like Smarkets is not a place where winners are welcome long-term (although that may change if they eventually attract enough losers into the ecosystem).

BTW, I don't blame you for opening an Smarkets account. The worst that can happen is that Smarkets show you the door in a few months' time, after you've made lots of money.

I agree that the thread title is misleading, given that they've only closed one successful account that we know of.

Jeff

Hmm, that sounds a bit harsh, but I'm hoping people see my point? The thread title is misleading as well?

[spreadbetting]

James, you didn't deny you were an arber, so we can assume you are then by the look of it. So it's not really surprising to see a company who has to provide liquidity stopping people from picking off prices. There is nothing weird about that really is there?

I'd have thought even traders would ultimately be taking money off the market makers so why the continual harping on about arbers as if they're scum of the earth

On an exchange if that liquidity is being offered up why the problem if it's taken. Do you really assume the market makers will allow those out of line prices to remain up for 'mug' punters to take, thereby increasing smarkets userbase, do you also assume once those prices are gone that no one will be there to fill the gap and provide liquidity for that runner at the new current price? Exchanges kind of find their own levels of activity just like flutter and betfair did in the early days, how you can condone smarkets banning accounts for winning or giving overly preferential treatment to 2 or 3 players is beyond me.

Either way as far as I can see smarkets have been given written authority by James to discuss their reasons for the ban so surely it's down to them to clear things up if they feel James is being economical with the truth.

[james19]

I'm not an arber. Actually the boss of Smarkets told me that he welcomes the turnover that arbers generate.

I use statistical models for the basis of my picks. The P/L snapshot I provided showed a negative fortnight, but the long term trajectory is up, although it's by no means a smooth line. I sometimes green if the market shifts from an overly pessimistic to an overly optimistic number, but this is quite rare.

I stopped greening out completely at Smarkets after management requested that I refrain from doing so, and I understood their predicament.

However from there the goalposts started to shift and management began complaining about pretty much any type of trade that could be construed as +EV. I would have happily discussed a mutually beneficial deal if one was clearly stated, but the feedback from management was very vague. They basically said in a round about way that you can stay but you can only enter the market if the odds are good for the maker, and once you enter you can't exit.

I believe that the guys behind Smarkets are smart and honest, and are probably the best entrepreneurial hope we have of mounting a challenge to Betfair's dominance in the near future. Unfortunately in this case however, their decision has resulted in me plowing tens of thousands of pounds worth of liquidity right back into the Betfair ecosystem.

[haichless]

James can I ask if you are placing money on statistical evidence, and basically dont green/red out much as you state, why you have not put some of the money into betdaq, you can get better prices sometimes, and if you arent really trading liquidity isnt an issue.
Number of markets cant be an issue otherwise you wouldnt have been at smarkets rather than betunfair.

Surely you can operate in a secondary supplier like daq more closely to the way you did at smarkets than at unfair.
Just curious, and confused, or maybe im just being a bit blonde.

[freddy]

I hadn't really been interested in smarkets but signed up anyway after reading this thread. I seriously doubt they will turn away good business.

Now I must admit i have a bit of a hangover this morning but even if i hadn't i'm pretty sure this would still be fairly hard for me to get my head around.

You've never been interested in Smarkets before, but now You've opened a account because of what you have read in this thread ???.

I know there is the saying that all publicity is good publicity but even so .

each to their own i suppose,
But at the end of the day they DO close winning accounts.

So Please if you do use them just make sure don't Green up against their market makers A.K.A lose Money

[james19]

They DO indeed close winning accounts, but they have a hard time publicly admitting that, hence the 18 page thread.

[james19]

I'm getting bored waiting for a pragmatic management response to the elephant in the room.

Hmmmm....

Perhaps they're content to emulate the model of Skybet, but if they hold out any hopes of a £500m+ IPO any time in the next decade then they will have to rethink their model and allow big players like myself back into the fold.

[james19]

Interesting to see that bookmakersreview.com have downgraded Smarkets rating as a result of this... Clearly people read these boards which is encouraging, as I had no contact with them myself.

http://www.bookmakersreview.com/bookmak ... ters/48018