I agree, some of the things being thrown about are crazy, slightly undercutting Betfair is not the way forward, we will just have two unworkable exchanges instead of one, no good for anyone.
Betfair got rich from 5% and less.
Have your say on the future of BETDAQ
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
agree too. there's no need, or justification, for a pc on any exchange.
BD needs to concentrate on the technology and API in the short-term, and then some aggressive marketing pointing out the benefits and value of a true p2p exchange (all assuming they're gonna go down that road!), and the liquidity, volume and profits will follow.
BD needs to concentrate on the technology and API in the short-term, and then some aggressive marketing pointing out the benefits and value of a true p2p exchange (all assuming they're gonna go down that road!), and the liquidity, volume and profits will follow.
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backorlaythefav
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:10 pm
Betdaqs 3% commission makes me bet with betdaq whenever possible. The following improvements would make me bet with betdaq 100%:-
1) Have to have betdaq SP for win and place markets for horse racing as I want to lay to a percentage of my betting bank!
2) Need to tempt the big boys away from Betfair to create liquidity and the only way to do that is to charge a lot less commission and they will move over time!
3) I have a tipping page on facebook and the amount of people who ask me what laying is, is unbeleivable. So I think Betdaq need to teach "occasional" punters about the advantages of LAYING and TRADING especially in football as you can't do this with the bookies.
1) Have to have betdaq SP for win and place markets for horse racing as I want to lay to a percentage of my betting bank!
2) Need to tempt the big boys away from Betfair to create liquidity and the only way to do that is to charge a lot less commission and they will move over time!
3) I have a tipping page on facebook and the amount of people who ask me what laying is, is unbeleivable. So I think Betdaq need to teach "occasional" punters about the advantages of LAYING and TRADING especially in football as you can't do this with the bookies.
Two points to add, from a football trading perspective.
I would move to BetDAQ for trading the larger leagues, but I want to see what Ladbrokes are going to bring to the table first, for better or for worse.
Secondly, I trade the lower leagues, from European 2nd divisions to English 5th league, and the liquidity appears to be improving to the point where 3 figure stakes are often possible to trade out easily. I'd have to see that being possible on BDQ first.
So really, LIQUIDITY LIQUIDITY LIQUIDITY!
I would move to BetDAQ for trading the larger leagues, but I want to see what Ladbrokes are going to bring to the table first, for better or for worse.
Secondly, I trade the lower leagues, from European 2nd divisions to English 5th league, and the liquidity appears to be improving to the point where 3 figure stakes are often possible to trade out easily. I'd have to see that being possible on BDQ first.
So really, LIQUIDITY LIQUIDITY LIQUIDITY!
I've always been one of the more outspoken traders here with regards to Betdaq, I'd always been disillusioned at their lack of ambition in trying to take on BF. So, I'm excited that they are now in a position to be more competitive
I agree with freddy. BD doesn't need to undercut BF on 5% commission. BF got rich on 5% cuts, and everybody was happy with this. The key to attracting some big players surrounds BD/Lads attitude towards winners and potential PC. PC is the most contentious issue with BF, they got away with it for so long because BD were such poor competition....Not anymore!
If BD state quite clearly, that there will be no PC on winning accounts, then they will start getting business.
Also, make sure the website remains reliable and stable during busy times. If something does go wrong, then inform people and be honest about it. BF's attitude to their customers during crashes deserves to lose them customers, their standards of service dropped terribly.
I agree with freddy. BD doesn't need to undercut BF on 5% commission. BF got rich on 5% cuts, and everybody was happy with this. The key to attracting some big players surrounds BD/Lads attitude towards winners and potential PC. PC is the most contentious issue with BF, they got away with it for so long because BD were such poor competition....Not anymore!
If BD state quite clearly, that there will be no PC on winning accounts, then they will start getting business.
Also, make sure the website remains reliable and stable during busy times. If something does go wrong, then inform people and be honest about it. BF's attitude to their customers during crashes deserves to lose them customers, their standards of service dropped terribly.
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Mr Undercover
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:22 pm
Guys,
I'm going to talk to them in person but I'm loath to identify myself. I don't trust betfair at all having read this forum, other forums and spoken in person to people on the receiving end of BF's rough justice last years. These companies are driven by profit only and it's nieve to think Ladbrokes or any other publicly listed company will not do what is in their shareholders interests to drive profits regardless of who they tread on in the process. They will be operator within the laws and rules of their legal jurisdiction and that's about it in terms of boundaries everything is fair game.
I think it's a very positive thing that BF will have a decent competitor, will this serve the interests of the sports trading community? Certainly in the short term, they desperately need our liquidity to take BF on. Will they implement Premium Charge, certainly once it's percieved it's the only or best way to increase profits, no one should be in any doubt about this. Hell will freeze over before their legal department allowed them to give anything other than hollow assurances on this front.
Do we help them, yes of course. It's a great shame we don't have a trade body to provide this feedback in a clear and consolidated format with priorities... and importantly attempt to negotiate an amnesty on PC and anything else we want to put off for as long as possible.
The closest we have to this is Peter and they should pay for his assistance, we could do a vote on questionaire or somethig to ensure the top priorities are worked on first - this feedback is invaluable to them.
Incidentally, I don't expect BF will take this siting down, read into that what you will, but watch this space as the two exchanges start trading blows.
I'm going to talk to them in person but I'm loath to identify myself. I don't trust betfair at all having read this forum, other forums and spoken in person to people on the receiving end of BF's rough justice last years. These companies are driven by profit only and it's nieve to think Ladbrokes or any other publicly listed company will not do what is in their shareholders interests to drive profits regardless of who they tread on in the process. They will be operator within the laws and rules of their legal jurisdiction and that's about it in terms of boundaries everything is fair game.
I think it's a very positive thing that BF will have a decent competitor, will this serve the interests of the sports trading community? Certainly in the short term, they desperately need our liquidity to take BF on. Will they implement Premium Charge, certainly once it's percieved it's the only or best way to increase profits, no one should be in any doubt about this. Hell will freeze over before their legal department allowed them to give anything other than hollow assurances on this front.
Do we help them, yes of course. It's a great shame we don't have a trade body to provide this feedback in a clear and consolidated format with priorities... and importantly attempt to negotiate an amnesty on PC and anything else we want to put off for as long as possible.
The closest we have to this is Peter and they should pay for his assistance, we could do a vote on questionaire or somethig to ensure the top priorities are worked on first - this feedback is invaluable to them.
Incidentally, I don't expect BF will take this siting down, read into that what you will, but watch this space as the two exchanges start trading blows.
Betfair's first response to this has been to hide the exchange away on their site and promote their sportsbook to new customers instead.Mr Undercover wrote:Guys,
Incidentally, I don't expect BF will take this siting down, read into that what you will, but watch this space as the two exchanges start trading blows.
Genius
Yes thats what they appear to want to happen with existing excahnge cutomers,
but if you clear your cache / cookies you will be directed to the sportsbook and so will all new customers. The exchange is hidden quite well then.
It took me a while to find it on a new laptop
.
but if you clear your cache / cookies you will be directed to the sportsbook and so will all new customers. The exchange is hidden quite well then.
It took me a while to find it on a new laptop
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
I guess the fact that they are hiding it tells a story within itself. Their customer base under the current model isnt growing I presume. I would imagine this is the reason for the change, or why fix it if it isnt broke?
Maybe for regular punters, they dont even know which side of the book they need to click on to make a gamble for a "back" bet like with traditional bookies and therefore they dont get involved with bf and move to another online bookies where they can make a simple back bet. Therefore maybe they think that to bring in new money they need to take away the thinking and let the traders fight it out in the back ground to accept the money of the punters and do what they wish with it?
I know its not what they set out to do in the beginning but I think if the bf exchange was growing year on year and many new customers were joining then they wouldnt need to be changing the model.
Maybe for regular punters, they dont even know which side of the book they need to click on to make a gamble for a "back" bet like with traditional bookies and therefore they dont get involved with bf and move to another online bookies where they can make a simple back bet. Therefore maybe they think that to bring in new money they need to take away the thinking and let the traders fight it out in the back ground to accept the money of the punters and do what they wish with it?
I know its not what they set out to do in the beginning but I think if the bf exchange was growing year on year and many new customers were joining then they wouldnt need to be changing the model.
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Groovyelms
- Posts: 277
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 7:42 am
I thought is was just me with the hide and seek betfair..( all my cache and cookies are cleared automatically).
I am going to the ice show for a mooch around with a buddy, just to look at the show really... If ladaq realy got into gear it could be a big earner for them just running it as an exchange properly.. much like betfair in the old days, do it well take the commission... and market the exchange as a trading medium... surely they have enough mug money already, or on second thoughts maybe not..
I am going to the ice show for a mooch around with a buddy, just to look at the show really... If ladaq realy got into gear it could be a big earner for them just running it as an exchange properly.. much like betfair in the old days, do it well take the commission... and market the exchange as a trading medium... surely they have enough mug money already, or on second thoughts maybe not..
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davetimmins
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:22 pm
- Location: NW
Only just caught up on this thread but it makes interesting reading. Like most people I have become more and more frustrated with Betfair. The new PC seems to have seen off a lot of the moderately successful traders, hitting liquidity but not BF profits. In-play is now much poorer in general liquidity with the vast majority of money placed at the end of races by the more organised 'big hitters'. The in-play markets are now driven by greed and the need to make more profit to pay the PC. I feel that before long it will be track layers and backers taking each others money. BF are happy with this as they can get up to 60% commission rather than 5% off the normal punter.
Betdaq perhaps need to listen to the more savvy traders on here. It's the BF model pre PC that they want to emulate, not the current one - which is failing. It could be just the right time for some competition to Bf but it won't be easy. Liquidity has to be key and from all sources not just traders. No PC will attract traders if the liquidity is there but the traders can't provide all the liquidity. It could prove to be a little 'chicken and egg' but Betdaq have to get the model right first and see how customers react - and how BF react! Real competition for BF is only going to be good one way or another.
Betdaq perhaps need to listen to the more savvy traders on here. It's the BF model pre PC that they want to emulate, not the current one - which is failing. It could be just the right time for some competition to Bf but it won't be easy. Liquidity has to be key and from all sources not just traders. No PC will attract traders if the liquidity is there but the traders can't provide all the liquidity. It could prove to be a little 'chicken and egg' but Betdaq have to get the model right first and see how customers react - and how BF react! Real competition for BF is only going to be good one way or another.