What's Your Stress Relief for a Nasty Bad Trade
ps when reading this sort of info where so much excellent words are in a very small space without padding, try printing out and use different coloured highlighters. Play around and the good points will stick in your mind much better. Cut out bits you like and make a montage....it works surprisingly well
No matter if you win big or lose big take a big break.
That's my rule.
When I win, I need to stay humble and that starts by being away from the trading platforms. When I lose, I need to take a day to think through that it was an execution stuff up and not a strategic hole.
That's my rule.
When I win, I need to stay humble and that starts by being away from the trading platforms. When I lose, I need to take a day to think through that it was an execution stuff up and not a strategic hole.
Great advice mugs, wish I'd listened. The constant temptation is to get involved, which isn't the thing to be doing when its not clear. Discipline is definitely where I kept falling down.
But even with iron discipline I don't think it's that easy to win. The prices for some of the horse racing markets are just too fast moving- the trader experiences a strong urge to react fast- they fire in orders in a panic, and inevitably lose.
But even with iron discipline I don't think it's that easy to win. The prices for some of the horse racing markets are just too fast moving- the trader experiences a strong urge to react fast- they fire in orders in a panic, and inevitably lose.
I read an interesting article this evening, and the following got me thinking:
'A few years ago I saw a news story that perfectly illustrates innermost conflict coming to a head. A professional hockey player was giving a press conference after his wife had him arrested for spousal abuse. This was his opening statement:
“I am not the kind of guy who beats his wife.”
The statement seemed ridiculous as evidentiary photos of his wife scrolled onscreen, but in this man’s understanding of himself, he was not a wife beater. Even though he had clearly beaten his wife. Crazy right?
But for him the statement was not contradictory because he had come to the conclusion that his actions were the result of his emotions overwhelming him, which triggered his body to act before his mind could intervene. He wasn’t “himself” when he hit her. After the evidence of his actions presented, he had to reconcile those actions with his sense of self. His conclusion was that deep down, he was not the kind of man who would hurt his wife. But somehow that truth was slow in coming into his brain.
Slow neurons were at fault, not “him.” People used to blame “the Gods” for these kinds of actions.
Clearly, admitting to himself that he was the kind of guy who hit his wife was in deep conflict with his sense of self. So his statement—while ludicrous to anyone who saw the evidence—made complete sense to him. Of such internal conflicts self-deception is made.
A person knocked off his fragile self-equilibrium must get back into balance. He can cling to who he thinks he is and rationalize his behavior. That’s the “guilty with extenuating circumstances” phenomenon. Or he can begin to define himself through his past actions and then consciously change his future actions to align with who he aspires to be, not who he assumes to be. Which course do you think is harder?
When we act against who we think we are there is serious conflict, enough to destroy us. We can either rationalize ourselves back to our original understanding (denial) or we can reconcile who we really are with who we want to be (change).'
From http://www.stevenpressfield.com/2013/11/conflict/
So the question for indisciplined traders is this: You believe in being disciplined, yet you don't act disciplined. How can you bridge that gulf, and act in accordance with your own beliefs and values?
Jeff
'A few years ago I saw a news story that perfectly illustrates innermost conflict coming to a head. A professional hockey player was giving a press conference after his wife had him arrested for spousal abuse. This was his opening statement:
“I am not the kind of guy who beats his wife.”
The statement seemed ridiculous as evidentiary photos of his wife scrolled onscreen, but in this man’s understanding of himself, he was not a wife beater. Even though he had clearly beaten his wife. Crazy right?
But for him the statement was not contradictory because he had come to the conclusion that his actions were the result of his emotions overwhelming him, which triggered his body to act before his mind could intervene. He wasn’t “himself” when he hit her. After the evidence of his actions presented, he had to reconcile those actions with his sense of self. His conclusion was that deep down, he was not the kind of man who would hurt his wife. But somehow that truth was slow in coming into his brain.
Slow neurons were at fault, not “him.” People used to blame “the Gods” for these kinds of actions.
Clearly, admitting to himself that he was the kind of guy who hit his wife was in deep conflict with his sense of self. So his statement—while ludicrous to anyone who saw the evidence—made complete sense to him. Of such internal conflicts self-deception is made.
A person knocked off his fragile self-equilibrium must get back into balance. He can cling to who he thinks he is and rationalize his behavior. That’s the “guilty with extenuating circumstances” phenomenon. Or he can begin to define himself through his past actions and then consciously change his future actions to align with who he aspires to be, not who he assumes to be. Which course do you think is harder?
When we act against who we think we are there is serious conflict, enough to destroy us. We can either rationalize ourselves back to our original understanding (denial) or we can reconcile who we really are with who we want to be (change).'
From http://www.stevenpressfield.com/2013/11/conflict/
So the question for indisciplined traders is this: You believe in being disciplined, yet you don't act disciplined. How can you bridge that gulf, and act in accordance with your own beliefs and values?
Jeff
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2046
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
As I mentioned in my earlier reply, emotion (irritability, annoyance) are lumped together with anger (violence, shouting) yet they are two separate entities. No amount of walking away (separation) will work long term as this only prevents the anger, or hopefully it does, from occurring. To prevent it more effectively you must deal with the emotions that triggers it or else you are doomed to repeat it.Ferru123 wrote: “I am not the kind of guy who beats his wife.”
But for him the statement was not contradictory because he had come to the conclusion that his actions were the result of his emotions overwhelming him, which triggered his body to act before his mind could intervene.
Jeff
Indeed.
And when anger does arise, it's best to try to accept it, rather than block it (for example, by going in-play in order to recover one's losses).
I quite like 'watching the mind' meditations, where you just observe your emotions and thoughts without judgement, rather than getting caught up in them and throwing fuel on the fire.
Jeff
And when anger does arise, it's best to try to accept it, rather than block it (for example, by going in-play in order to recover one's losses).
I quite like 'watching the mind' meditations, where you just observe your emotions and thoughts without judgement, rather than getting caught up in them and throwing fuel on the fire.
Jeff
JollyGreen wrote: To prevent it more effectively you must deal with the emotions that triggers it or else you are doomed to repeat it.
I have found it helpful to try and think like a saver. Savers will put a bit away each month and forget about it then one day they have a nice lump sum. Being happy with a small green screen is emotionally easier then going for the big win. It;s not easy to think in a different way to normal but by trying to think long term instead of for today is helpful.
+1
Agree 100%.
If a perfect setup goes horrendously against you, but you only have (say) 0.5% of your bank on the line, you may shrug your shoulders and think 'No big deal'.
If it's a sure thing that goes wrong, but you have 20% of your bank on the line, you'll probably a bit frustrated...
Jeff
Agree 100%.
If a perfect setup goes horrendously against you, but you only have (say) 0.5% of your bank on the line, you may shrug your shoulders and think 'No big deal'.
If it's a sure thing that goes wrong, but you have 20% of your bank on the line, you'll probably a bit frustrated...
Jeff
redtra wrote:Savers will put a bit away each month and forget about it then one day they have a nice lump sum.
With something like 7,000 races a year, it's not like there aren't plenty of opportunities to trade.
Yeah, it might get boring, but I'd rather be bored than broke.
Jeff
Yeah, it might get boring, but I'd rather be bored than broke.
Jeff
kelpie wrote:But that's the rub. if you only expose 1% or less of your bank you'll only progress like a tortoise in calipers.
It is a Friday night and I am writing this after a couple of weeks break, so I logged back in and am reflecting on what has been said in the replies here.
It is amazing that I still feel such a mug, especially looking at guys on here who spend hours at a PC and not trade, or trade with small small stakes to win a quid an hour or something like that? I think the lottery guy is the exception but don't you guys work? Have kids / bills to pay. Please don't say that if you can't afford to lose then don't play - I Know all that but surely there is no point trading if you don't want extra cash? You can't surely do it to avoid the pain of boredom?
It strikes me like never before that I am so out of touch with trading that my decision to quit - or at least taking a sabbatical is the right thing for me.
The psychology associated with trading is complex and only a very few are good at it = of which I am not one.
Last Wednesday I went into a bookies for the first time in four years and had a £5 treble on the footy which won. I came out with £29 - small potatoes to my losses on BF, but it wasn't about the money - it was the win. No more spending hours at the PC, studying "form" looking for trades - no more "a dog chasing his tail in circles" - A ten minute glance at a coupon, and bang - I am back where I started four years ago. I thought betfair trading was the way forward but I was wrong. How close is trading to Gambling? I still cant see much difference and that is my problem I think.
I am a punter I know that now and yes I will probably not have another win for weeks- in fact I may even quit while I am ahead! But the stress for now has gone - Good luck guys.
It is amazing that I still feel such a mug, especially looking at guys on here who spend hours at a PC and not trade, or trade with small small stakes to win a quid an hour or something like that? I think the lottery guy is the exception but don't you guys work? Have kids / bills to pay. Please don't say that if you can't afford to lose then don't play - I Know all that but surely there is no point trading if you don't want extra cash? You can't surely do it to avoid the pain of boredom?
It strikes me like never before that I am so out of touch with trading that my decision to quit - or at least taking a sabbatical is the right thing for me.
The psychology associated with trading is complex and only a very few are good at it = of which I am not one.
Last Wednesday I went into a bookies for the first time in four years and had a £5 treble on the footy which won. I came out with £29 - small potatoes to my losses on BF, but it wasn't about the money - it was the win. No more spending hours at the PC, studying "form" looking for trades - no more "a dog chasing his tail in circles" - A ten minute glance at a coupon, and bang - I am back where I started four years ago. I thought betfair trading was the way forward but I was wrong. How close is trading to Gambling? I still cant see much difference and that is my problem I think.
I am a punter I know that now and yes I will probably not have another win for weeks- in fact I may even quit while I am ahead! But the stress for now has gone - Good luck guys.
For me trading is like sitting down in front a fruit machine and pressing the button repeatedly because you know it's going to pay out. So even if I don't know the order profits and losses will occur I know that the more I press the button, the more comes out. I'm unusual in that I've got so natural at it that I trade in-between doing other things. But that's just a function of practice: -
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=4153
I too traded like an idiot when I started and found it stressful. So that's why I don't dissuade people from trying, even if they find it difficult. I could have easily given up early on. But also there are lots of 'pros' that do OK but eventually fail, but that's a function of not constantly challenging themselves to improve. Or boredom!
I'm currently trying to work out in my head what I want to be doing when I'm 50.
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=4153
I too traded like an idiot when I started and found it stressful. So that's why I don't dissuade people from trying, even if they find it difficult. I could have easily given up early on. But also there are lots of 'pros' that do OK but eventually fail, but that's a function of not constantly challenging themselves to improve. Or boredom!
I'm currently trying to work out in my head what I want to be doing when I'm 50.